Taking the Knee

[kettering_baggie]

The point I was making was this,

If people boo because they don't want football to be political. Fair enough, they should have the right to protest it.

If people boo because they don't agree with the equality and anti discrimination message, then I don't respect those people. And those people should be educated in my opinion.

The problem is, how do you distinguish between them?

I tend to agree with you but I suspect that those booing players kneeling are far more likely to be protesting against the political gesture (or whatever you want to call it) than to be doing so as a racist gesture. Racists will be making their feelings known anyway, in other ways.

[baggieal]

I don't think the national anthem should be played before domestic games, I don't see the point. As Yarm said, most of the players are foreign anyway at the top level. International games makes sense because there are national teams playing each other.

I want England to win in every sport, and I'm British but I don't subscribe to the thought that this is the best country in the world. I don't think I'd live here if my wife wasn't so keen to stay. There are socio-economic problems in this country, and much stems from the very top - who we elect every 4 years. But then every country has its issues I guess.

Also, I thought read somewhere that England players do donate their fees to charity? I think Gary Neville introduced it when he was playing. I stand corrected if I'm wrong.

I tend to agree with you but I suspect that those booing players kneeling are far more likely to be protesting against the political gesture (or whatever you want to call it) than to be doing so as a racist gesture. Racists will be making their feelings known anyway, in other ways.

Totally agree Ketts! Only a complete idiot would boo if it was racial as most teams have black players! I couldn’t care less if a girl played for us if she was better than what we have!

Almost all those boos will be because people feel taking the knee has no place in football!

Those who support the taking the knee should not condemn those who boo as long as it’s not vicious or quite obviously aimed towards an individual.

Still say - if a white player refuses to take the knee like some black players have - he will be slaughtered and that would be totally unfair!

Those cricket players who were alleged to have made racist remarks in their ****s - for God sake they were hardly out of school! Hand on heart I bet everybody has said something they shouldn’t have done in the heat of the moment years ago whether it’s racist, homophobic or ***ist! Ron Atkinson did and David Whelan but for Christ sake - they are not racists!

[Titchfieldbaggie]

Totally agree Ketts! Only a complete idiot would boo if it was racial as most teams have black players! I couldn’t care less if a girl played for us if she was better than what we have!

Almost all those boos will be because people feel taking the knee has no place in football!

Those who support the taking the knee should not condemn those who boo as long as it’s not vicious or quite obviously aimed towards an individual.

Still say - if a white player refuses to take the knee like some black players have - he will be slaughtered and that would be totally unfair!

Those cricket players who were alleged to have made racist remarks in their ****s - for God sake they were hardly out of school! Hand on heart I bet everybody has said something they shouldn’t have done in the heat of the moment years ago whether it’s racist, homophobic or ***ist! Ron Atkinson did and David Whelan but for Christ sake - they are not racists!

Have to agree with this. The vast majority of people in this country are now unwittingly playing in a turf war between extreme left and right and we should call both out, equally. Using race relations as a political weapon is odious.

If we think that taking the knee is an issue for football, at the moment, just wait for the Olympics.

[OWV]

Out of interest, what is the specific issue some of you have with taking the knee? I mean specifics, not the glib "keep politics out of football" clichés. What is it that actually causes offence? I'm not fishing, I'm actually interested.

[WBA1955]

Out of interest, what is the specific issue some of you have with taking the knee? I mean specifics, not the glib "keep politics out of football" clichés. What is it that actually causes offence? I'm not fishing, I'm actually interested.

I think basically it's because people are fed up with it.
It was okay at the start but it's like hearing a comedian keep telling the same jokes every time you see him.

[OWV]

I think basically it's because people are fed up with it.
It was okay at the start but it's like hearing a comedian keep telling the same jokes every time you see him.

With respect, that's not really a specific reason. I want to understand the nuts and bolts of it. Is being fed up of something a valid reason to be so vehemently against it?

[Yarmbaggie]

Have to agree with this. The vast majority of people in this country are now unwittingly playing in a turf war between extreme left and right and we should call both out, equally. Using race relations as a political weapon is odious.

If we think that taking the knee is an issue for football, at the moment, just wait for the Olympics.

For me there are two issues here, racism and Black Lives Matter.

On the first I firmly believe racism is wrong and we need to do what we can to overcome it. However, it is so inbred in people that I don’t expect it to disappear in my lifetime. I worked in Edinburgh for two years and know full well that racism is not confined just to the colour of ones skin. One of my best mates is Indian born and arrived in the UK from Kenya. He tells me even now the racial hate between most Indians and Pakistanis is extreme and again colour is not the issue. How we control and communicate those intolerances or biases are what defines us as individuals and unfortunately some do it a lot worse than others.

As to Black Lives Matter and taking the knee I really don’t like the way this is being used in England. Other multi cultural and multi ethnic footballing countries such as France, Germany, Holland, Belgium all have highly mixed race teams but BLM seems not to dominate the game anywhere near as much at club or national level. In many at best it is given lip service. Some of the predominately white countries such as Spain, Italy, Scotland, Greece also don’t seem to be following what BLM want them to do either.

I am far from convinced taking the knee and BLM is a problem for football. It seems to me BLM and taking the knee seem to be far more a problem for English football rather than football in general. Maybe something that my Asian friend always says, which is you English are the most tolerant and accommodating country he knows anywhere in the world and he has travelled a fair bit!

[mickd1961]

With respect, that's not really a specific reason. I want to understand the nuts and bolts of it. Is being fed up of something a valid reason to be so vehemently against it?

It’s having agendas rammed down your throat all the time.

It seems that there always has to be a “cause” these days, one minute it’s the foetus on a stick Greta Thunberg telling us we’ve ruined the world for her generation......whilst travelling the world on jets, using mobile devices and tablets that have components mined by 5 year olds in some god forsaken Hell hole and her completely missing the irony to players being forced to take the knee for fear of the backlash for not doing so.


Take the climate change stuff for example, I get it but I don’t need to hear zealots like little Miss Happy ranting at me about it.

I consume little, I rarely buy new clothes and I change my car only every 4-5 years and the last two have both been electric hybrids, I love being in pure electric mode, it feels clean as well as fast and quiet.

I can’t wait for the BMW MNext X5 hydrogen to come out in 2022-2033......I’ll be one of the first in the queue.

My view was changed by sensible debate and by listening to the American former presidential runner ( forget his name ) and his film “The Uncomfortable Truth ( I think? ) probably 15+ years ago.

I don’t need a 14 year old talking down to me, my parent and to my grandparents ( who made the world a safer non Nazi place for her to live in ) and hearing her say we’d all “stolen her future”.

BLM is a racist, anti white organisation, they’d eradicate us whites if they were given the chance, they spout on about tearing down the police etc ( so I gather? )

Taking the knee is a political statement, I don’t go to football to have political agendas stuffed down my throat.

“ Kick it out “ is a perfectly worthy “partner” for football, we don’t need players kneeling every week.

I’d have less problem with it if it was personal choice, if 10 of the squad were doing it on match day and 8 were not then I could be accepting of that albeit I still don’t like the political agenda part of it.

I think a lot of people on here and in conversations I’ve had generally feel the same, the dislike of the knee is the fact that we all know of the backlash to those who would choose not to do it.

We even have certain black players choosing not to do it, I have massive respect for these guys.

I’ve always lived my life based on how people treat me, I treat people as they treat me, I’ve met some horrible white people and I’ve met some horrible black and Asian people, I’ve also met a lot of lovely white people and equally lovely black and Asian people, I have a few Asian friends who are smashing human beings.

Players taking a knee will have absolutely zero effect on how I treat anybody, I start from a position of mutual respect with everyone I meet.

A racist of either colour is likely to remain a racist in my opinion, sad but true.

[baggieal]

For me there are two issues here, racism and Black Lives Matter.

On the first I firmly believe racism is wrong and we need to do what we can to overcome it. However, it is so inbred in people that I don’t expect it to disappear in my lifetime. I worked in Edinburgh for two years and know full well that racism is not confined just to the colour of ones skin. One of my best mates is Indian born and arrived in the UK from Kenya. He tells me even now the racial hate between most Indians and Pakistanis is extreme and again colour is not the issue. How we control and communicate those intolerances or biases are what defines us as individuals and unfortunately some do it a lot worse than others.

As to Black Lives Matter and taking the knee I really don’t like the way this is being used in England. Other multi cultural and multi ethnic footballing countries such as France, Germany, Holland, Belgium all have highly mixed race teams but BLM seems not to dominate the game anywhere near as much at club or national level. In many at best it is given lip service. Some of the predominately white countries such as Spain, Italy, Scotland, Greece also don’t seem to be following what BLM want them to do either.

I am far from convinced taking the knee and BLM is a problem for football. It seems to me BLM and taking the knee seem to be far more a problem for English football rather than football in general. Maybe something that my Asian friend always says, which is you English are the most tolerant and accommodating country he knows anywhere in the world and he has travelled a fair bit!

Good points Yarm. Do most parents who take children to a sporting event really want to see this week in week out - No! Would most people like to see more billboards - more announcements on united against racism - Yes!

Some black players which I have mentioned a couple of times refuse to take the knee! Good for them as they are individuals with their own minds! Do we really believe if a white player stands up and does NOT take the knee nobody will say anything just like those black players! We know that white player will be slaughtered - called a racist - could lose their career etc etc.

So in summary so many are jumping on to the slightest thing said or done by a white person but turns a blind eye to a non white. To ban cricketers for what they have said in their post school years is outrageous for God sake - the world has gone mad! Everybody and I repeat everybody has said something in the past whether it be deemed racist, anti gay or completely s exist!

Does a black player really get upset when a supporter boos - tut tut! How must Sian Massey who runs the line feel when thousands of supporters are singing - get your t its out for the lads! Far worse me thinks and humiliated but she just gets on with it!

[OWV]

It’s having agendas rammed down your throat all the time.

It seems that there always has to be a “cause” these days, one minute it’s the foetus on a stick Greta Thunberg telling us we’ve ruined the world for her generation......whilst travelling the world on jets, using mobile devices and tablets that have components mined by 5 year olds in some god forsaken Hell hole and her completely missing the irony to players being forced to take the knee for fear of the backlash for not doing so.


Take the climate change stuff for example, I get it but I don’t need to hear zealots like little Miss Happy ranting at me about it.

I consume little, I rarely buy new clothes and I change my car only every 4-5 years and the last two have both been electric hybrids, I love being in pure electric mode, it feels clean as well as fast and quiet.

I can’t wait for the BMW MNext X5 hydrogen to come out in 2022-2033......I’ll be one of the first in the queue.

My view was changed by sensible debate and by listening to the American former presidential runner ( forget his name ) and his film “The Uncomfortable Truth ( I think? ) probably 15+ years ago.

I don’t need a 14 year old talking down to me, my parent and to my grandparents ( who made the world a safer non Nazi place for her to live in ) and hearing her say we’d all “stolen her future”.

BLM is a racist, anti white organisation, they’d eradicate us whites if they were given the chance, they spout on about tearing down the police etc ( so I gather? )

Taking the knee is a political statement, I don’t go to football to have political agendas stuffed down my throat.

“ Kick it out “ is a perfectly worthy “partner” for football, we don’t need players kneeling every week.

I’d have less problem with it if it was personal choice, if 10 of the squad were doing it on match day and 8 were not then I could be accepting of that albeit I still don’t like the political agenda part of it.

I think a lot of people on here and in conversations I’ve had generally feel the same, the dislike of the knee is the fact that we all know of the backlash to those who would choose not to do it.

We even have certain black players choosing not to do it, I have massive respect for these guys.

I’ve always lived my life based on how people treat me, I treat people as they treat me, I’ve met some horrible white people and I’ve met some horrible black and Asian people, I’ve also met a lot of lovely white people and equally lovely black and Asian people, I have a few Asian friends who are smashing human beings.

Players taking a knee will have absolutely zero effect on how I treat anybody, I start from a position of mutual respect with everyone I meet.

A racist of either colour is likely to remain a racist in my opinion, sad but true.

Interesting. I do think that there's an irony in treating others based in how they treat you (I agree with that btw), despite having previously called a girl you've never met a foetus on a stick.

As for BLM, I keep reading comments about them being anti-white and racist. I'm not sure where the evidence for this is? If anyone could educate me on it I'd be interested. In fact, in all I've seen in any BLM march, there have been people of all colours present in solidarity. I wouldn't say that's an exclusively racist organisation. In fact, BLM has no hierarchy, it's a collection of activists, so if anyone thinks it's a sinister organisation with insidious intent, then I'm afraid they're in for a shock. I don't think they have the structure for it.

It's like when people moan about Antifa, as if it's a standalone organisation. It doesn't actually exist, it's just a loose collection of people who share an idea. Anyway I digress.

I've not seen any evidence of BLM being racist. If they're campaigning for equality, how does that make them racist? Especially when people of all backgrounds join the fight?

For what it's worth, my wife is black, and without going into too much detail, she's had some experience with BLM campaigning for reasons close to our hearts. She married me, a white guy. I don't think you can get any less racist than that, so I dare say I've had more experience/interaction with this movement than most people on this board and can therefore categorically state I have never seen, heard or been exposed to any racist or anti-white sentiments from any BLM campaigner or protest. But hey, some people on here know better.