Those of you who had Covid....

[spaldy]

"Information on negatives is being suppressed or not put out there clearly", statement based on what evidence?

"The vaccine is great........time limited......less effective in 6 months...etc". There are multiple vaccines, and not all have been studied nor is the time limitation relevant (if anything it re-inforces the benefit if a booster vaccination).

"The UK stats are headed back in the wrong direction......" conveniently omitting the break that has been achieved between increased infection rates and hospitalisation with serious illness and/or death, which is entirely down to the vaccination programme (and where the vast majority of new infections are amongst those with no vaccine history!).

Not a single statement of unqualified support for vaccination or recognition of the benefits to the individual nor society of the programme as a whole.

"I'm not an anti-vaxxer", yeah and the Pope isn't Catholic.

I'll be happy to send you the two obituaries of my wife's fellow hospital workers that died after the second vaccination shot. Both survived the Covid only to be "helped" by the mandatory vaccine to keep their job. of course, the same government official that mandated the vaccine is no where to be found for the 3 children left motherless. I'm sure on their deathbed they were comforted the by fact that only junk science and fake news said that vaccines were safe.

You might also want the review the USA's FDA approval this week. it does not apply to the MNRA vaccine that their are millions of doses around. It applies to a newer version- Comirnaty- that is much lower in supply. Of course, our journalists and government somehow forgot to mention that. The approval does not apply to the Bioentec Pfizer vaccine that has been supplied around the world. It's obviously a half assed sound bite for the government while preserving the ability to hedge their bets when things go wrong. Does the fact that a government and journalists lie to you give you any reason to question their motives?

Not that I'd expect you to research anything but links that fit your view but you might want research the polio vaccine process. Polio was much more serious than Covid and there were three strains of it going around. The initial vaccine developed by Salk was intended to address all three strains. it's caused some serious side effects and eventually was eliminated. Google the "cutter incident". Many children and adults were harmed by this vaccine. some took years to recover and some never did. The entire time another vaccine develop by another scientist - Sabin- was developed that was totally safe and became the gold standard for polio vaccines. A small comfort to the people injured and killed by Salk vaccine. of course, the government told us that Salk vaccine was totally safe as well and it was mandated in many places.

People old enough to remember this, know history or listen to their elders know that corruption we've seen in the past is not limited to the past and that no governmental regulator is ever held accountable. I personally have been vaccinated but also know that the government doesn't give two ****ts about me unless I stop paying them taxes. whenever they "mandate" something I know it's never about my family or my safety but a control measure. we've buckled without so much as a whimper.

[spaldy]

Here is another another good one from the same people that mandate vaccines.


https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

I believe that the government at the time said this was for the "good of our nation".

what could go wrong when these benevolent bureaucrats are given absolute power.

[WTF11]

I'll be happy to send you the two obituaries of my wife's fellow hospital workers that died after the second vaccination shot. Both survived the Covid only to be "helped" by the mandatory vaccine to keep their job. of course, the same government official that mandated the vaccine is no where to be found for the 3 children left motherless. I'm sure on their deathbed they were comforted the by fact that only junk science and fake news said that vaccines were safe.

You might also want the review the USA's FDA approval this week. it does not apply to the MNRA vaccine that their are millions of doses around. It applies to a newer version- Comirnaty- that is much lower in supply. Of course, our journalists and government somehow forgot to mention that. The approval does not apply to the Bioentec Pfizer vaccine that has been supplied around the world. It's obviously a half assed sound bite for the government while preserving the ability to hedge their bets when things go wrong. Does the fact that a government and journalists lie to you give you any reason to question their motives?

Not that I'd expect you to research anything but links that fit your view but you might want research the polio vaccine process. Polio was much more serious than Covid and there were three strains of it going around. The initial vaccine developed by Salk was intended to address all three strains. it's caused some serious side effects and eventually was eliminated. Google the "cutter incident". Many children and adults were harmed by this vaccine. some took years to recover and some never did. The entire time another vaccine develop by another scientist - Sabin- was developed that was totally safe and became the gold standard for polio vaccines. A small comfort to the people injured and killed by Salk vaccine. of course, the government told us that Salk vaccine was totally safe as well and it was mandated in many places.

People old enough to remember this, know history or listen to their elders know that corruption we've seen in the past is not limited to the past and that no governmental regulator is ever held accountable. I personally have been vaccinated but also know that the government doesn't give two ****ts about me unless I stop paying them taxes. whenever they "mandate" something I know it's never about my family or my safety but a control measure. we've buckled without so much as a whimper.

I'm sorry to hear about the deaths of your wifes colleagues, although I don't see what point you make by mentioning them. My wife died without having been able to benefit from the administration of adjuvant chemotherapy that might have extended her life, because medical professionals considered her underlying health to be so fragile as to make such treatment lethal. Do i know, for certain, if that was the right decision? No, of course not. It may or may not have been, but whichever, it doesn't negate the benefits to others of such treatments, neither do the deaths of your wifes colleagues or others outweigh the benefits of the vaccination programmes, the overwhelming majority of which are NOT mandatory.

The current vaccines approved by various bodies around the globe have been administered in their tens of millions of doses, under varying circumstances, and there have been side-effects and tragically deaths as a result, but miniscule in number compared to the tens of millions of lives that have been saved and/or protected, and some measure of a return to a less bizarre and abnormal life has been made possible by their application. Barrier protection (masks, gloves, screens etc) will NEVER be effective, when the general public are either unaware of how such methods should be used correctly (unlike wearing a mask multiple times, draping it under your chin then putting it back on your face etc etc), or simply don't adopt them on a 100% basis (and can you honestly say that in your experience, 100% of [people used barrier methods 100% correctly?).

What types of vaccine are available, what their supply situation is, are matters of logistics, not principle. Vaccination programmes have been responsible for eradicating smallpox (at least in the majority of the developed world) and for the almost achieving the same for measles, mumps and rubella. Have there been mistakes, and/or side effects? In a vaccination group as large as for the MMR combined vaccine for example, the answer is, "of course". Would you rather have epidemics of measles/shingles that can maim and kill, mumps that render the victims infertile?

And why you would choose to accuse me of not doing research I have no idea, when the post in which you include that insult contains nothing but a critique of the wildly inaccurate, disingenuous and misleading statements made by HO in his earlier post.

I think I can give you a few years, and whether or not I'm sure there is no generational gap between us. We have differing views on many things, our experience of government and how it interacts with us is very different I suspect, none of which takes away from my earlier statement regarding prevention being better (and far cheaper) than cure. That's a statement of principle, acknowledging that along the way some will suffer and some will die. What alternative to a similar principle, "Failure is an opportunity to learn" would you suggest, given that human beings are and always will be fallible?

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Go and read the recent EMA report dated 11 August 2021 which sets out the side effects including deaths of mRNA vaccines - yes it says on balance the risks are outweighed by the rewards but acknowledges a number of risks - they have also requested further data from two companies.

Hence there are risks.

Go look up Dr Robert Malone who speaks out against the suppression and concealment of debate amongst the scientific and broader community. He invented mRNA technology so believes in the tech but is concerned that risks for the CVD 19 vaccines are not being properly acknowledged and debated. All he is advocating is data based decision making and discussion as opposed to disinformation from regulators and government.

Nudge theory is getting out of control.

He is a supporter of vaccines but making the case for debating openly risks and that it is healthy to be looking for them. He wants to avoid emperors new clothes syndrome where no adverse effects can be acknowledged.

[WTF11]

Go and read the recent EMA report dated 11 August 2021 which sets out the side effects including deaths of mRNA vaccines - yes it says on balance the risks are outweighed by the rewards but acknowledges a number of risks - they have also requested further data from two companies.

Hence there are risks.

Go look up Dr Robert Malone who speaks out against the suppression and concealment of debate amongst the scientific and broader community. He invented mRNA technology so believes in the tech but is concerned that risks for the CVD 19 vaccines are not being properly acknowledged and debated. All he is advocating is data based decision making and discussion as opposed to disinformation from regulators and government.

Nudge theory is getting out of control.

He is a supporter of vaccines but making the case for debating openly risks and that it is healthy to be looking for them. He wants to avoid emperors new clothes syndrome where no adverse effects can be acknowledged.

I never suggested there weren't risks, but vaccines and their mass application are the only way out of using masks and gloves, and lockdowns, and isolation, and all the human suffering and desolation that goes with those things, despite the risks.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I never suggested there weren't risks, but vaccines and their mass application are the only way out of using masks and gloves, and lockdowns, and isolation, and all the human suffering and desolation that goes with those things, despite the risks.

Why on earth are you arguing and being difficult then - oh because that’s what you do!

[ozleeds]

I never suggested there weren't risks, but vaccines and their mass application are the only way out of using masks and gloves, and lockdowns, and isolation, and all the human suffering and desolation that goes with those things, despite the risks.

Vaccines won't stop the virus so where do you get the idea of no masks. Even the lying pollies here have said masks will be here for years and we better get used to them.
Vaccines are to reduce the effect of the virus and they are not even sure how long the injection will last. People with full vaccination can still get the virus and pass it on.

[Ozwhites]

Vaccines won't stop the virus so where do you get the idea of no masks. Even the lying pollies here have said masks will be here for years and we better get used to them.
Vaccines are to reduce the effect of the virus and they are not even sure how long the injection will last. People with full vaccination can still get the virus and pass it on.

Very true. You can still get the virus after jabs. But the vaccines will still reduce the amount of transfer between numbers. Surely that is in our best interest with reducing the spread? 😮

[WTF11]

Vaccines won't stop the virus so where do you get the idea of no masks. Even the lying pollies here have said masks will be here for years and we better get used to them.
Vaccines are to reduce the effect of the virus and they are not even sure how long the injection will last. People with full vaccination can still get the virus and pass it on.

We live with bacterial and viral infections all the time and we build immunity via recovery from infection and vaccination, which as you rightly state reduce the effect of those infections.

Unlike Australia and New Zealand where vaccination has been slow and focus has been on containment, there are new lockdowns (statewide and/or national) almost weekly. With the population distribution and geography/topology initial efforts at containment may have made sense, but not once adequate numbers and quantities of vaccines became available. You are paying for the smug self-satisfaction that was generated by the success if those early, distinctly short-term gains.

Here with nearly 90% single and over 75% double vaccinated adults we have seen infection rates rise as almost all restrictions (including the general use of masks) have been lifted nationally but hospital admissions haven't followed as they did in the first two surges, neither thankfully have deaths. Will protection last forever? No. Does protection via the flu virus last forever? Equally no. Viruses mutate. I would rather live with a need for a regular vaccine booster than wearing masks

[WTF11]

Very true. You can still get the virus after jabs. But the vaccines will still reduce the amount of transfer between numbers. Surely that is in our best interest with reducing the spread? 😮

And reduce the effect if you do get infected.