O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[MadAmster]

That 1.25% increase is NOT a % increase. It is a percentage point increase. NIC's are being hiked by 10.42%.

[Andy_Faber]

That 1.25% increase is NOT a % increase. It is a percentage point increase. NIC's are being hiked by 10.42%.

Doing well on the agreement front this morning MA, another 'point' I agree with, this is really poorly explained by HMG, poorly challenged by HM opposition and not really picked up on by The Media

[Andy_Faber]

the proletariat in the UK aren't terribly bright

you've done it again! Put on record how much you dislike your fellow man.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Its interesting that its only those proles that believed the brexiteer lies are "not terribly bright" whereas those who believed the remainer lies are............

That said Swale is sort of right in that a Norway style deal would have been attractive had it been on the table. But as I recall it wasn't an option when brexit was put to bed: but as a way back economically, if that is what is wanted, still might work as a compromise.

Anyway this is on the wrong thread,

As for the "is the NI hike 1.25% or 10.42%" is a bit like the semantics of 1-4-3-3 . it is what it is and is a step in the right direction in handling something that has been a large fly in the ointment since the 60's and, as MA says, no previous government has tried to tackle it. Whether its an adequate step, or whether its badly targetted, is debatable but its a start

[ramAnag]

you've done it again! Put on record how much you dislike your fellow man.

I don’t think that’s an illustration of a dislike of ‘fellow man’, AF. It’s simply an illustration of what we all know. You’re happy to make such points about people ignoring sensible Covid precautions in your local Asda, the way people sometimes behave on holiday or at football matches etc. Those same people are part of the ‘proletariat’/electorate and often they behave in a way which isn’t ‘terribly bright’. It’s one of the enormous flaws in democracy, imo.

To illustrate the point...I’m not doubting MA’s suggestion for one moment, but can someone explain how ‘NIC’s are being hiked by 10.42%’ please, because I for one genuinely don’t understand and I’m damned sure it’s in the Government’s best interests for that to go unexplained.

[Trickytreesreds]

Quote Originally Posted by swaledale View Post
the proletariat in the UK aren't terribly bright
you've done it again! Put on record how much you dislike your fellow man.

Interesting analogy. The proletariat, the description given to the working class by the marxists.
1. I thought Swale was the champion of the working class
2. Doesn't he believe the proletariat have a say in anything
3. They are the proletariat because they don't have qualifications of the nearest barrister.

It takes all sorts to run a society. From the road sweeper to the rocket scientists.
Swales interpretation runs on the principle of animal farm

Oink oink

[Trickytreesreds]

Any government that isn't Tory is clearly an improvement, but of course you were told by your right wing elite funded media and internet sources that Corbyn was bad for the country, mmm well maybe, but maybe for the average guy and woman in the street he would ahve been a breath of fresh air, but then history suggests the proletariat in the UK aren't terribly bright because they keep voting in Government s that screw them!! Go figure that one.

I said name me one. Not what you'd like to see.
As for Corbyn, no one was going to elect a Jew hating/ IRA loving hypocrite with the nuance of an earwig.

[Geoff Parkstone]

rA: basic employee NIC rates for a person on PAYE are currently 12%

The rate next year will be 13.25%

The increase expressed as a percentage - (13.25-12)/12 = 10.42%

To muddy the waters still further, the 1.25% add on also applies to employers NI contribution - from 13.8% to 15.05%, ie a 9.06% increase;

The self employed NI goes up from 9 to 10.25%, an 11.40% increase

and finally, I promise - dividend tax goes up by 1.25% from 7.5% to 8.75% (for basic rate tax payers) an increase of 16.67%

the MA way of expressing the difference will again be different for higher rate tax payers with dividend tax to pay, but lets not complicate it still further.


The bottom line is that an additional 1.25% will be collected under EENI, ERNI, self employed NI and dividend tax regardless of what the previous rate was.

This is just for the year 2022-23, because for 2023-24 and onwards there will be a seperate 1.25% social care levy and NI rates supposedly will return to current levels. We shall see.

bet you wish you'd never asked now!

[ramAnag]

rA: basic employee NIC rates for a person on PAYE are currently 12%

The rate next year will be 13.25%

The increase expressed as a percentage - (13.25-12)/12 = 10.42%

To muddy the waters still further, the 1.25% add on also applies to employers NI contribution - from 13.8% to 15.05%, ie a 9.06% increase;

The self employed NI goes up from 9 to 10.25%, an 11.40% increase

and finally, I promise - dividend tax goes up by 1.25% from 7.5% to 8.75% (for basic rate tax payers) an increase of 16.67%

the MA way of expressing the difference will again be different for higher rate tax payers with dividend tax to pay, but lets not complicate it still further.


The bottom line is that an additional 1.25% will be collected under EENI, ERNI, self employed NI and dividend tax regardless of what the previous rate was.

This is just for the year 2022-23, because for 2023-24 and onwards there will be a seperate 1.25% social care levy and NI rates supposedly will return to current levels. We shall see.

bet you wish you'd never asked now!

No...I honestly appreciate it. It’s a bit like talking to RR again instead of GP...and all the better for that.

Unfortunately, and this is entirely my fault I accept, I’m still failing to understand how a rise from 12% to 13.25% is anything other than 1.25%.

Ah...but slowly I think I’m beginning to grasp it...but then it disappears again. It reminds me of my maths and science lessons when...almost on the brink of comprehension the attractions of break time football or Carol Taylor’s knickers provided a terminal interruption.

Does kind of illustrate a point about democracy though. I’m, allegedly, educated (to post graduate level) and relatively intelligent (debatable...I know) and I still don’t really get it. More complex numeracy is, as you know, not one of my strengths, in the same way as I might argue that morality and sensitivity aren’t yours. If that’s true of us then was there really any chance of the proletariat/electorate voting intelligently and with an informed voice over Brexit?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Only you could turn a lesson in numeracy into a polemic on the Brexit vote! So following your lead......

Percentage changes in percentages are a bit tricky to get your head round. lets try it in a way closer to home

In a hypothetical poll 52% voted in a particular way. if 10% more had voted this way, would the vote in favour of the decision have been

(a) 62% or (b) 57.2% or (c) still less than half ?

You or I might think (a). MA would think (b). Swale would think (c)