O/T:- Come on Emma!

[cher1]

A quick google search tells us that;

‘There are 25,281 India-qualified doctors in the UK, accounting for 9% of doctors registered with the General Medical Council.12 Apr 2017’.

Whatever rule it was stopping Indian qualified doctors from coming to the UK, it wasn’t a very strict one, though you obviously have knowledge that those figures don’t reflect. No idea how many EU qualified doctors there were or are now but in 2014 the Times said;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...eu-x8l72tbgw9p

Is there any actual evidence that we were bringing in less competent doctors or patients came to harm because of EU rules? Happy to see it if there was, but if so I’m surprised they didn’t put it on the side of a bus rather than make up the stuff they did.

Anyway the bigger picture is that restricting the number of people who can work here in the way that we have is causing major headaches in the short term and will more than likely continue to do so in the medium and long term.

Many of those Indian doctors came over before the restrictions in recruiting from outside the EEA came in. Some will be included because they are junior enough in their career to be working on a student visa (first and second year after qualifying). Then they would likely have to leave despite having done their medical degree here.

Others will come because their role was advertised (for a set period of time) and no EEA candidates came forward. So then (eventually) trusts would have been allowed to advertise again, and applicants from outside Europe could be considered. The Border Agency/Force would visit and require evidence that this whole process had been followed to the letter. Meanwhile, trusts have to manage with one - or more - vacant medical posts whilst all this is going on.

Others will have been able to come because their specialty is on the shortage occupation list.

As for coming to harm, I gave a specific example earlier. I'd think there were plenty more, after all if you aren't allowed to test the language skills of a doctor, what could possibly go wrong?! Fortunately, that was changed eventually, but it took years.

As for other examples of harm/competence, I need to be vague, but after some mass EU recruitment from one part of Europe, a cohort may have been removed from their posts en masse. Let's say that's a rather unusual event.

As for harm due to the EWTD, it's not easily measurable, and it's a really complex area. However, if you visit someone in hospital, you'll notice that almost all junior doctors now work shifts, which is a direct result of these regulations. Consequently the team structures within medicine has been dismantled to an extent, and junior doctors (that's everyone apart from consultants) can't be mentored and learn from following patients through their care when they are working factory hours and have to clock off.

The Royal College of Surgeons were against the introduction of the EWTD from the start, and more recently, here's what they say: https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-ev...e-discussions/. I think it's safe to say that if the quality of training is impacted, harm will likely follow.

I agree entirely with your final paragraph. The application process for a tier 2 visa is ridiculously tortuous and takes ages. I'd like to see a much shorter, simpler process for all shortage occupations.

Apologies to everyone else, this is probably really boring!

[Riverleeno]

Many of those Indian doctors came over before the restrictions in recruiting from outside the EEA came in. Some will be included because they are junior enough in their career to be working on a student visa (first and second year after qualifying). Then they would likely have to leave despite having done their medical degree here.

Others will come because their role was advertised (for a set period of time) and no EEA candidates came forward. So then (eventually) trusts would have been allowed to advertise again, and applicants from outside Europe could be considered. The Border Agency/Force would visit and require evidence that this whole process had been followed to the letter. Meanwhile, trusts have to manage with one - or more - vacant medical posts whilst all this is going on.

Others will have been able to come because their specialty is on the shortage occupation list.

As for coming to harm, I gave a specific example earlier. I'd think there were plenty more, after all if you aren't allowed to test the language skills of a doctor, what could possibly go wrong?! Fortunately, that was changed eventually, but it took years.

As for other examples of harm/competence, I need to be vague, but after some mass EU recruitment from one part of Europe, a cohort may have been removed from their posts en masse. Let's say that's a rather unusual event.

As for harm due to the EWTD, it's not easily measurable, and it's a really complex area. However, if you visit someone in hospital, you'll notice that almost all junior doctors now work shifts, which is a direct result of these regulations. Consequently the team structures within medicine has been dismantled to an extent, and junior doctors (that's everyone apart from consultants) can't be mentored and learn from following patients through their care when they are working factory hours and have to clock off.

The Royal College of Surgeons were against the introduction of the EWTD from the start, and more recently, here's what they say: https://www.rcseng.ac.uk/news-and-ev...e-discussions/. I think it's safe to say that if the quality of training is impacted, harm will likely follow.

I agree entirely with your final paragraph. The application process for a tier 2 visa is ridiculously tortuous and takes ages. I'd like to see a much shorter, simpler process for all shortage occupations.

Apologies to everyone else, this is probably really boring!

Not boring at all - an inte

[Riverleeno]

*an interesting post.

[jackal2]

I have the ability to ask her that question but understandably won't.

However I'm reliably informed that she is all about the tennis, she's too young to know much else and hasn't had the fame and fortune during her tennis career prior to this year's Wimbledon.

Her agents and representatives on the other hand may view it very differently as she will be in huge demand from now on and seek to cash in when she is red hot.

Only time will tell, and it will be enjoyable to watch what happens in the upcoming years. Whatever happens she's a history maker.

I'm curious now as to how you have the ability to ask her? If you don't want to explain that's fine, or if I've missed an earlier explanation I apologise.

Yes, agents and representatives play a big part, although you would hope that the team who successfully got her this far will be equally well equipped to help continue her development. Ultimately I hope they support her whichever direction she chooses to take, whether that's exploiting the commercial opportunities while they are there, or ignoring all distractions to focus on her game.

I think in order to win a major sporting prize at that level you have to be all about your sport until the first time you win. It's what happens to your motivation when you achieve it that can vary from person to person. Look at Tyson Fury for example, who was totally focused on dethroning Wladimir Klitschko and achieved his goal, but mentally disintegrated immediately afterwards, only to re-discover his fire to win the world title again.

[sidders]

So ... is she 'Our Emma' and does it matter anyway? What a mish-mash - born in Canada of Chinese and Romanian parentage.
In my book, that makes this talented lady a shining example of multiculture, a concept that has been roundly condemned on this site for many years.
All that matters is that she is a wonderful un spoiled talent and long may she stay that way, although I see a number of obstacles awaiting her.
'Nationalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel' (Ben Johnson?)
Thank goodness they didn't play the national anthem on the night.

[lunaspie]

'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel' - get it right.

[tied_up_in_notts]

'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel' - get it right.

And it was SAMUEL Johnson who said it

[queenslandpie]

If she's a citizen of the UK then she's a citizen of the UK. To me that's all there is to it. She's ticked the box and has sewn her colours to the flag from a sporting perspective. Although I'd be keen to know who she barracks for in the football! I still go for England first and foremost in all sports and will support Australia in any sport when they are not playing England except Cricket and I hold both an Australian and a UK passport.

[lunaspie]

And it was SAMUEL Johnson who said it

Sid is no Boswell and ,of course,being Scottish he subsists on oats.

[forwardmagpie]

Forward magpie, I know the right wing press got very excited by Barnier’s comments, so it’s no surprise you have as well. His job was the EU’s chief negotiator in the Brexit talks, in which he ran rings around the UK representatives. He’s now just another French politician seeking election in his own country, and after support from as wide a range of voters as possible, some of those will be anti EU. Big deal. And what does he have to do with Emma Raducanu anyway?

I don’t get excited by it BFP but did find it interesting that now he can speak his own mind. You obviously disagree with him so you can say “big deal” to his views.

He didn’t run rings around the UK representatives anyone with a serious interest in the negotiations knew that we would never get a good deal from the EU because if we did a flood of countries would also leave.