O/T Fuel Queues

[WBA123]

Still make the lazy bleeders do a job instead of living on benefits

Still, won't solve our problems.

Its an emotive response to a problem that needs a smarter solution.

[baggieal]

I don't quite understand this inverse snobbery against educated people.

If you went into hospital for an operation would you want Des standing over you or an educated and experienced surgeon? In our trade negotiations do you want someone who has an idea of what they are talking about or David Davies turning up with no paperwork?

There are no doubt educated people who don't apply intelligence and uneducated people who do. But you can't tell me that anyone who voted for Brexit applied intelligence to their vote. Most people largely voted that way because they didn't like immigrants, I hope this is a wake up call to them about how important Freedom of Movement was to us.

You are right! Most people voted Brexit based on immigrants but many are so thick they couldn’t distinguish against hardworking EU immigration and illegal immigration. I didn’t vote but I was swayed by the romance of Brexit. I admit I was wrong!

Mick is right there are a lot of people who do well without being educated but they are in the minority. For me the greatest gift to any child is a fantastic education which is why I admire many Asians who send their kids to private schools to study medicine or law. I can assure you many succeed as it’s handed to them on a plate but they still have to put in a shift to succeed.

If you gain a degree it can never be taken away from you and you can fall back to it in later life. If you have no education what do you fall back on unless you have been in the minority and done well through sheer work ethic and a bit of luck? Not a lot which is why many go back to college/training courses etc.

Serious companies ( blue chip ) who have graduate recruitment departments do employ fantastic graduates and they fast track them to the top. The John Lewis Group and TUI Group had graduates who were promoted to CEO’s and they were mega intelligent and very commercially astute. These companies turn over billions. I could go on and on!

Many professional careers you have to go to university to obtain degrees like Medicine, Law etc and not many of those individuals are stupid I can assure you. Lacking a bit of common sense perhaps but that’s totally different to being educated.

Going back to the Asian mentality where families scrape every penny to send kids to private schools - not many of those kids fail I can assure you. Fair play to this Asian mentality and priority given to their kids.

The biggest asset is education and one of the biggest gifts is to give a child is a good education. Not a given but nothing is in life but then of course the child will have more opportunities - it’s then whether they take them! Many do - the ones I know do anyway!

It’s a fact of life many schools are self selecting with the people who live in a town. If many are lawyers, dentists, vets then for sure the kids will be self educated and have the benefit of self selectiveness with similar kids.

[baggiematt]

It's typically hypocritical of the remainers to demean the education of those who voted Brexit and yet not care or understand why they felt the need to vote in the first place. Lived experience is important here.

Immigration is a huge value for some in our society and others it has completed changed towns and cities they once felt they knew. My mother-in-law voted Brexit. I wholehearted couldn't challenge her. She lives in a local town and her next door neighbour to the one side is a large family of Romanian people who mostly don't speak English. To her right it's a heavily Muslim family, who again don't speak great English. That describes the majority of her street and town. Large gangs of European youths knock around the town; probably most not seeking trouble, but she can't tell. She doesn't know their mothers, or relatives to know who they are and what they are about. Many people in working class areas have lost their community through immigration.

Do you think she cares about the economic risks of leaving the EU? Do you think she's bothered about anything other than having the familiarity of having neighbours she can relate to. It's not racist, she's intimidated. THIS is the common Brexit voter. Not someone who can't make an informed decision.

Most people who voted Brexit want immigration, but on their terms. Can you blame them?

[baggieal]

It's typically hypocritical of the remainers to demean the education of those who voted Brexit and yet not care or understand why they felt the need to vote in the first place. Lived experience is important here.

Immigration is a huge value for some in our society and others it has completed changed towns and cities they once felt they knew. My mother-in-law voted Brexit. I wholehearted couldn't challenge her. She lives in a local town and her next door neighbour to the one side is a large family of Romanian people who mostly don't speak English. To her right it's a heavily Muslim family, who again don't speak great English. That describes the majority of her street and town. Large gangs of European youths knock around the town; probably most not seeking trouble, but she can't tell. She doesn't know their mothers, or relatives to know who they are and what they are about. Many people in working class areas have lost their community through immigration.

Do you think she cares about the economic risks of leaving the EU? Do you think she's bothered about anything other than having the familiarity of having neighbours she can relate to. It's not racist, she's intimidated. THIS is the common Brexit voter. Not someone who can't make an informed decision.

Most people who voted Brexit want immigration, but on their terms. Can you blame them?

As a person on the fence - many voted Brexit because of immigration full stop and now are blabbing because the hard working EU Nationals are all going home. Farage helped win the vote which was obvious!

You can’t tell if now if they didn’t have a revote the majority result would be in favour of Brexit. It wouldn’t! Many businesses are on their knees!

[baggiematt]

As a person on the fence - many voted Brexit because of immigration full stop and now are blabbing because the hard working EU Nationals are all going home. Farage helped win the vote which was obvious!

You can’t tell if now if they didn’t have a revote the majority result would be in favour of Brexit. It wouldn’t! Many businesses are on their knees!

There is provision in place with the shortage occupation list for roles in the country that would be difficult to fill by people with right to work in the UK and then foreign recruitment is allowed. This isn't one of them, because, frankly it shouldn't be. There has been a major failing by fuel companies to not spot this and train/recruit enough people to satisfy the issue. There would be plenty of UK based people to do those types of jobs if they planned, sold it well enough and then paid a decent wage. They don't and then they blame the government, it's baffling!

[WBA123]

It's typically hypocritical of the remainers to demean the education of those who voted Brexit and yet not care or understand why they felt the need to vote in the first place. Lived experience is important here.

Immigration is a huge value for some in our society and others it has completed changed towns and cities they once felt they knew. My mother-in-law voted Brexit. I wholehearted couldn't challenge her. She lives in a local town and her next door neighbour to the one side is a large family of Romanian people who mostly don't speak English. To her right it's a heavily Muslim family, who again don't speak great English. That describes the majority of her street and town. Large gangs of European youths knock around the town; probably most not seeking trouble, but she can't tell. She doesn't know their mothers, or relatives to know who they are and what they are about. Many people in working class areas have lost their community through immigration.

Do you think she cares about the economic risks of leaving the EU? Do you think she's bothered about anything other than having the familiarity of having neighbours she can relate to. It's not racist, she's intimidated. THIS is the common Brexit voter. Not someone who can't make an informed decision.

Most people who voted Brexit want immigration, but on their terms. Can you blame them?

Whilst you make some good points, on the whole I'd disagree with your fundamental point. There are no doubt people out there such as your Mother-in-Law who have had these experiences and feel like they have lost their community. But there aren't millions of them, and they're not the typical Brexit voter.

The typical Brexit voter probably has very little to do with immigrants. Remember, large swathes of our rural population voted for Brexit, there are fewer immigrants in places like Cornwall, Wales and Lincolnshire and they all voted overwhelmingly for it. Most immigrants are in London, which they voted to remain as did other major city centres - all immersed into immigration far more than rural places.

The typical Brexit voter is scared into disliking immigrants by print media playing on their emotional fears. They didn't vote for Brexit for economic reasons. You mention your mother-in-law had a Muslim family to one side of her, how would voting for Brexit have any impact on them? This was an EU decision, that is predominantly a white, Christian continent (another reason why the Leave campaign was so effective) and research has proven EU immigrants benefitted the country. And now your mother-in-law is facing shortages of food, fuel, energy etc. do you think this will improve her life? Do you think it will improve the life of her next generation of her offspring and the one after that?

So, why did many young educated people vote remain? How about their future life experiences? These are the people who will be paying for this damaging decision and they seem to get castigated to the side - because of 'Lived experiences'. The vast majority of these older, uneducated people who voted for Brexit did so not for the reasons your Mother-in-Law did, but because typically they didn't want immigrants here - of any background. That's just pure xenophobia.

[WBA123]

There is provision in place with the shortage occupation list for roles in the country that would be difficult to fill by people with right to work in the UK and then foreign recruitment is allowed. This isn't one of them, because, frankly it shouldn't be. There has been a major failing by fuel companies to not spot this and train/recruit enough people to satisfy the issue. There would be plenty of UK based people to do those types of jobs if they planned, sold it well enough and then paid a decent wage. They don't and then they blame the government, it's baffling!

The Govt drove through an economically damaging Brexit. We would have struggled with issues from the pandemic anyway, but Brexit is compounding these issues. Tens of thousands of EU workers have returned back home, because our Govt have created an environment where they feel unwelcome. If that isn't the Govt's fault then who else is there to blame. Fruit is not being picked in our fields, we are 100,000 HGV drivers short and the NHS is on its knees.

Its time for the Tories and Leavers to take some responsibility.

[baggiematt]

Whilst you make some good points, on the whole I'd disagree with your fundamental point. There are no doubt people out there such as your Mother-in-Law who have had these experiences and feel like they have lost their community. But there aren't millions of them, and they're not the typical Brexit voter.

The typical Brexit voter probably has very little to do with immigrants. Remember, large swathes of our rural population voted for Brexit, there are fewer immigrants in places like Cornwall, Wales and Lincolnshire and they all voted overwhelmingly for it. Most immigrants are in London, which they voted to remain as did other major city centres - all immersed into immigration far more than rural places.

The typical Brexit voter is scared into disliking immigrants by print media playing on their emotional fears. They didn't vote for Brexit for economic reasons. You mention your mother-in-law had an Asian family to one side of her, how would voting for Brexit have any impact on them? This was an EU decision, that is predominantly a white, Christian continent (another reason why the Leave campaign was so effective) and research has proven EU immigrants benefitted the country. And now your mother-in-law is facing shortages of food, fuel, energy etc. do you think this will improve her life? Do you think it will improve the life of her next generation of her offspring and the one after that?

So, why did many young educated people vote remain? How about their future life experiences? These are the people who will be paying for this damaging decision and they seem to get castigated to the side - because of 'Lived experiences'. The vast majority of these older, uneducated people who voted for Brexit did so not for the reasons your Mother-in-Law did, but because typically they didn't want immigrants here - of any background. That's just pure xenophobia.

You're right it has nothing to do with Asian communities but people want a sensibly managed immigration system and Farage and co sold a points based immigration system should Brexit occur. There was no offer of this if Brexit didn't occur. So this was seen as a no brainer by much of the country because a lot of the country have felt the immigration system is out of touch with what the society wants. To be fair, a more stringent immigration process is in place, so it worked.

Why should we have shortages of supply and UK unemployment? Why should we have to recruit working class people from overseas to manage our supply? Do you honestly think a working class family with the issues of poorly handled immigration in their towns will have thought about food supplies before voting Brexit because simply that's not a set of jobs that needs immigration to fix. I've already pointed out the current fuel crisis could be fixed by British people, it's failure in planning that has caused it.

I disagree wholeheartedly that most people voted through xenophobia. I still think a very small percentage of our country is racist. Personally, I think a lot of people don't want to see more of what has happened to local working class towns like West Brom, Dudley, Tipton etc. I couldn't tell you why people in rural areas voted, I don't live in a rural area so I couldn't tell you.

People wouldn't fear immigration if the large majority of immigrants were partly integrated by being able to speak the same language which a good immigration system will fix.

[mickd1961]

It's typically hypocritical of the remainers to demean the education of those who voted Brexit and yet not care or understand why they felt the need to vote in the first place. Lived experience is important here.

Immigration is a huge value for some in our society and others it has completed changed towns and cities they once felt they knew. My mother-in-law voted Brexit. I wholehearted couldn't challenge her. She lives in a local town and her next door neighbour to the one side is a large family of Romanian people who mostly don't speak English. To her right it's a heavily Muslim family, who again don't speak great English. That describes the majority of her street and town. Large gangs of European youths knock around the town; probably most not seeking trouble, but she can't tell. She doesn't know their mothers, or relatives to know who they are and what they are about. Many people in working class areas have lost their community through immigration.

Do you think she cares about the economic risks of leaving the EU? Do you think she's bothered about anything other than having the familiarity of having neighbours she can relate to. It's not racist, she's intimidated. THIS is the common Brexit voter. Not someone who can't make an informed decision.

Most people who voted Brexit want immigration, but on their terms. Can you blame them?

The best post on this subject in ages.

The reason that Brexit happened at all was down to the way the Eu treated a very weak Cameron when he went to them looking for some flexibility and then had other leaders visibly turning their backs on him at an Eu summit.

Cameron warned the Eu what the future would look like if they couldn’t find flexibility and ultimately he was right.

I’ll try to put this in simple terms as to avoid confusion.

There is no issue ( in my mind ) with immigration but it should always be based on what any country needs.

I don’t think that if I moved to Spain I should be allowed to bring my mother and the rest of the family with me even if they’re retired or not interested in working.

I’ve always been a strong advocate of the Australian way and a solid points system.

I loved Australia when I visited two years ago and there’s no way you could describe that country as being short of immigrants, the difference is that they seem to be in jobs and they haven’t been able to bring extended family with them.

I’m 60 in a couple of weeks, there’s no way I could get residency there now unless I maybe moved my business there but due to my agreements with brands I’m pretty much limited to only dealing within the Eu so my Aussie dream is long gone.

In my experience people in this country don’t want “everyone out”, they want people here who want to work.

I hope that sometimes the next few years a sensible compromise is reached so that anyone of working age who wants to work in any country across the Eu is able to do so and to start a family in that country or bring existing wife/partner and existing kids with them.

For me it’s got to be on that basis though, as I’ve explained before on here, to simply dump a huge number of Romanians into a deprived area like they did near me in Lye a few years ago had to stop.

It’s absolutely ruined what was a very solid “melting pot” of Asian and white people, the street violence with machete fights and the uptick in crime since they arrived has had a very bad effect on that patch.

So on a personal level, I’m happy to see young Eu migrants with a high work ethic arriving and the same reciprocation for our lot who want to move abroad.

I just know this won’t be enough for certain people though and that I’ll still be an old, white racist.

[regis80]

You do sometimes baffle me Mick. I read your posts from time to time, I agree with and disagree with and in the main they provide some entertainment value. However, I do think at times you get extreme or ignorant in your views for particular certain groups who behave in a certain way or has typical traits of.
You once came here to label those thugs who were about to rob your daughters car as ‘asian scum’. Do you ever wonder how that can be perceived. I know you’ll have your reasons but it does not come across well.
When you refer to chinese as little runts, again not great.
Uni students, again not very bright. It’s a very narrow minded view. I agree to a point not all uni students are smart.. this coming from me who is a former student and recently did a postgraduate level course. You get some smart and you don’t get some smart, like you get bad asians. You cannot label everyone the same way.
I don’t think it’s clever of you to come here saying your company won a contract for the padels, with so much cancel culture going on wouldn’t you be worried a rival company picking up these threads read some of your views? What do you think that will do?
However the above sounds mick, it’s not intended to feel as i’m attacking you in anyway. Just my frank honest view of it. I’m likely to have said something wrong or not explained well.