OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Okay...you slope off in a typically bad tempered and diversionary grump if you like.

I’ve never said...‘I’m right’, although obviously all of us on here, by definition, think we are because we’re putting forward our opinions on a forum. Neither am I saying that you’ve ‘changed your mind’...just that one particular thing you said involved a clear contradiction.

I’ve simply drawn attention to the findings of two polls. I contributed to neither of them in any shape or form. Just read it all back and work out for yourself whether what you’ve said makes sense or whether perhaps you might just be a tiny bit rattled by the ‘findings’.

Not sure why you bother even debating this with Thicky! His grasp of real world politic is shaky at the best of times! I'd thought he would be happy id he is enjoying his recreation in Thailand!

[swaledale]

Tend to agree Tricky, its going about as I had expected - more downs than ups but we're playing this game for 90 minutes, and being a goal down after 5 minutes doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Things will flatten out over time I'm sure - what the landscape will look like in 10 years time is what we really need to be concerned about. We may well flatten down into a worse financial position, but personally I've always expected that. Its the price to pay to get out of the USE and the horrors of tax and currency harmonisation, totally integrated foreign and defence policies.

The bitchfighting currently going on across the channel over fishing and refugees is entirely predictible - after all noone wants the refugees and brexit has simply give the French carte Blanche to encourage them over the water. But hopefully that will resolve itself sensibly even though we no longer share the same Junkerian leadership.

Its such a shame that the EU trade integration and economic cooperation plans dreamed of 60 odd years ago got driven so far off course by those with a vision of grosseres Europa, Or is is lebensraum?

One flaw with that, the UK was never going down the road of tax and currency harmonisation or totally integrated foreign and defence policies, so thats a red herring. I very much doubt that the majority of members of the EU will agree that in any case.

Though of course cooperation politically and on defence is actually whats realistically required in order to counter the influence of states such as Russia and China and also if european countries don't want to be totally reliant upon the USA for security going forward.

The fishing and Northern island dispute is down to the UK, and is a tactic designed to throw red meat to those Brexiteers stupid enough to swallow it and distract from the utter shambles the current government is making of Brexit.

Of course we could have left the EU and those imaginary horrors which you mention and had the benefit of trade integration and common market and hence avoided the complications and costs to the UK, but no our oh so stupid leaders decided that wasn't enough.

As for the refugees, well suffice to say that at some stage the Uk and Europe are going to have to bite the bullet on these, even if purely on humanitarian grounds, anyone who thinks europe can build a wall and stop refugees entering (even if one thinks that acceptable) is living in a fantasy world.

I should be surprised that nominally sentient people believe whats portrayed in the right wing media, but then when one inhabits a world of "little england" and thinks complex issues can be resolved so easily and that its better to do so on ones own rather than working with other countries I'm not.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure why you bother even debating this with Thicky! His grasp of real world politic is shaky at the best of times! I'd thought he would be happy id he is enjoying his recreation in Thailand!

No-one here takes your poisonous bile on other subjects particularly seriously but if you carry on with your insinuations (and yes I do have the history on it) I'll take action. You think you're being subtle - you aren't

[Trickytreesreds]

I do wish folks would stop labelling every illegal entry attempt into the UK and Europe as "refugees". Most of them are anything but refugees.
The current Polish border situation is farcical. Travelling to Belarus on a tourist visa, then EXPECTING to be able to cross the Polish border and on to Germany/wherever?
It is exactly language like this, that the left /liberal muppets convey, in order to win the "moralistic" argument.

The first job of any government is to protect it's borders and citizens. So no, I'm not buying that one.

One of your " failures of asylum" , blew himself up outside a hospital this week. It could have been an absolute nightmare, had it gone to plan.

One of your " asylum children " blew himself up at an Arianna Grande concert killing 23 people and injuring 1017

One of your "failures of aslum", stabbed to death 3 gay men in a park in Reading.

The crime explosion in Europe is attributed to "refugees". So much so Denmark has said, no more. Sweden are deporting like mad.

I don't wash this.

[MadAmster]

Whatever happened to the good old days when people whose asylum requests were refused got sent back home on the next available flight?

[Trickytreesreds]

Whatever happened to the good old days when people whose asylum requests were refused got sent back home on the next available flight?

Not sure if you are joking or not Maddy, but the point is valid.
The hospital bomber- Iraqi mother, Jordanian citizen, had lived in Iraq. Claimed to be a Syrian, asylum refused 2015. Sectioned for threating behaviour with a knife. Tried the Christian conversion card 2017, failed again.
Why/how the hell is he or any others still here?
Why, well it's the ECHR act and dodgy lawyers exploiting the system.
We have to bin this now. It's based around asylum laws drawn up in 1951. They are antiquated and obsolete. After WW2 and the cold war, yes it worked. But it is now a tool for exploitation that even criminals abuse.

In effect, they keep coming, because they know, how hard it is to eject them. Something that Europe is now a victim of its own doing.

[Trickytreesreds]

From a paper columnist -

AN ILLEGAL Iraqi migrant about to board a dinghy bound for Britain was asked by a journalist this week how long he'd been in France.
He laughed and shouted: “Seven years – five of them in jail.” He thought it was funny. He’d rocked up in a country that had given him safe haven and his response was to commit a *serious crime. Last time I looked France wasn’t a country that practiced persecution or oppression, which we’re being told all the migrants are *fleeing from. Yet the minute this bloke got out of jail he headed for soft-touch Britain where he knew food, accommodation and benefits were awaiting him.
The man’s a convicted criminal who has no legal right to be here having first landed in France, yet he IS here now because he knows – as do the 24,000 others who’ve landed this year – that he’s never likely to be deported.

Only FIVE have been sent back in 2021.


This will cost Johnson his job. Not the other stuff moaned about.

[Andy_Faber]

This (immigration) will cost Johnson his job. Not the other stuff moaned about.

That’s what I sense through my industrial-scale set of social media contacts. No one is bothered about inflation, no one is bothered about sleaze, no one is bothered about Brexit even, it’s all about immigration. It’s ironic that failure to control immigration may well cede power to those who don’t want to control it

[swaledale]

That’s what I sense through my industrial-scale set of social media contacts. No one is bothered about inflation, no one is bothered about sleaze, no one is bothered about Brexit even, it’s all about immigration. It’s ironic that failure to control immigration may well cede power to those who don’t want to control it

Failure to control immigration? Yet there have been fewer illegal migrants in total, just that they are more visible crossing the sea! Just shows how utterly thick people are!

Not quite sure how you come to the conclusion that other parties including Labour don't want to control it, just that they would do so in a way which doesn't break international law which the UK has signed up to.

Its been overblown by fascists in the press because they know that stupid people react to dog whistle slogans on immigration, to think one would ahve thought people would have learned from Hitler and the nazi's but no, what a bunch of hard faced inhuman ****s there are.

[Andy_Faber]

Failure to control immigration? Yet there have been fewer illegal migrants in total, just that they are more visible crossing the sea! Just shows how utterly thick people are!

Stop making stuff up to justify your position Swale