O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[Old_pie]

It's quite the coincidence isn't it that so many countries are reverting to type, Germany, Austria and Italy being the most keen on total control by all means necessary, Australia - as Clive James once said - a nation of prison guards as well as convicts and the USA's love for segregation (starting last year with blacks and whites being separated in the name of 'safe spaces'). Britain for a time had sympathy with Nazism in some quarters (including the royal family) before realising that it wasn't the way to go, perhaps we are in that process now. I very much hope so.

Anybody who holds the view that people should be forced to take an experimental vaccine is potentially a very dangerous and disturbed individual IMHO. Could be that Klopp's completely ignorant of the risks and (at least to some degree) its ineffectiveness, but him being so deeply involved in football I doubt it. His single minded personality obviously helps make him a great football manager, but in this case yes he is coming across as a bit of a Nazi. Personally, I'd prefer "fascist" but those that describe him as a Nazi I understand perfectly well what they are getting at.

In what way is he coming across as a Nazi? You earlier said it was because he was German. Now you are saying it's because he's in favour of vaccination which isn't what the writer you admire wrote in the article you cited.

[upthemaggies]

In what way is he coming across as a Nazi? You earlier said it was because he was German. Now you are saying it's because he's in favour of vaccination which isn't what the writer you admire wrote in the article you cited.

I've just re-read my previous post and I'm satisfied I've made the point I want to make re Klopp and I'm not going to be side tracked from that. If you don't see it, you don't see it. I'm under the impression that almost all pro-vax here would not be in favour of mandatory vaccinations, there's a few however I'd be worried about.

[Old_pie]

I've just re-read my previous post and I'm satisfied I've made the point I want to make re Klopp and I'm not going to be side tracked from that. If you don't see it, you don't see it. I'm under the impression that almost all pro-vax here would not be in favour of mandatory vaccinations, there's a few however I'd be worried about.

You seem very practised at dodging bullets and avoiding logic.

At what point would you consider any medication as not experimental?

[upthemaggies]

You seem very practised at dodging bullets and avoiding logic.

At what point would you consider any medication as not experimental?

I'm sorry, but if you don't accept that this completely new type of "vaccine" is an experiment, given it's been granted an emergency licence (on the debatable condition there is no effective treatment out there) to circumvent the proper testing procedure and the fact the law has been changed so that companies producing it are not liable no matter how much damage this vaccine may cause, then I'm going to have to conclude that you're just wilfully pretending otherwise as a coping mechanism having been persuaded to sign up for it.

You'd normally be looking at 5 years minimum, probably a decade for something as radical a departure from the normal type of vaccine as this to declare it safe enough to recommend for use (not force). Obviously, there comes a point where you need to test on humans and for that, you need volunteers and so you offer fit and healthy adults a proper cash reward incentive, not granting them basic human rights with the threat of taking those rights away if they don't "volunteer".

[Old_pie]

I'm sorry, but if you don't accept that this completely new type of "vaccine" is an experiment, given it's been granted an emergency licence (on the debatable condition there is no effective treatment out there) to circumvent the proper testing procedure and the fact the law has been changed so that companies producing it are not liable no matter how much damage this vaccine may cause, then I'm going to have to conclude that you're just wilfully pretending otherwise as a coping mechanism having been persuaded to sign up for it.

You'd normally be looking at 5 years minimum, probably a decade for something as radical a departure from the normal type of vaccine as this to declare it safe enough to recommend for use (not force). Obviously, there comes a point where you need to test on humans and for that, you need volunteers and so you offer fit and healthy adults a proper cash reward incentive, not granting them basic human rights with the threat of taking those rights away if they don't "volunteer".

It is you who doesn't have a balanced view of how the vaccines have been developed and what part of the process was expedited.

Coronovirus is not new - hence the 19 in Covid 19. It is not a completely new type of "vaccine".

Ah well - providing you've given someone access to the raw data of your Maggies site I guess I have no need to worry unduly. Fortunately many thousands of lives have been saved by those with more sense than you and your ilk. Personally I'd find it tempting to support withdrawal of hospital treatment for all unvaccinated sceptics. Tempting though I guess I'd relent in the long run. I guess I'm pretty similar to Klopp in this regard and I am not German and my Dad, quite rightly, fought the Nazis.

[upthemaggies]

It is you who doesn't have a balanced view of how the vaccines have been developed and what part of the process was expedited.

Coronovirus is not new - hence the 19 in Covid 19. It is not a completely new type of "vaccine".

Ah well - providing you've given someone access to the raw data of your Maggies site I guess I have no need to worry unduly. Fortunately many thousands of lives have been saved by those with more sense than you and your ilk. Personally I'd find it tempting to support withdrawal of hospital treatment for all unvaccinated sceptics. Tempting though I guess I'd relent in the long run. I guess I'm pretty similar to Klopp in this regard and I am not German and my Dad, quite rightly, fought the Nazis.

Coronavirs goes back 55 million years or more, first identified in the 1960s.

This is the first mRNA vaccine to be rolled out - traditionally you'd just introduce the virus to the immune system, the immune system then recognises it and that's it. With this new one, you get the body to produce lookalikes, in this case spiked. So it's not the virus itself you produce, but what it looks like, the shape of it. Natural or trad vax immunity would not only know what it looks like, but also how it behaves if you like - imagine somebody you know very well dressed up as and pretending to be Batman, you still know it's them. New Vax immunity will be more easily fooled.

Not too confident I'm going to be able to still post here or maintain the site by 2025, due to other issues which I'm not going to go into, what's happening now might bring that date forward but it almost certainly won't be because I'm dying of Covid-19 unless there's a nasty variant that evades all immunity (vaxxed or natural) - and I wouldn't rule that possibility out.

I could say something about the "Good Germans" and "Bad Germans" analogy but I'll save that for another time.

[applepie2]

I'm sorry, but if you don't accept that this completely new type of "vaccine" is an experiment, given it's been granted an emergency licence (on the debatable condition there is no effective treatment out there) to circumvent the proper testing procedure and the fact the law has been changed so that companies producing it are not liable no matter how much damage this vaccine may cause, then I'm going to have to conclude that you're just wilfully pretending otherwise as a coping mechanism having been persuaded to sign up for it.

You'd normally be looking at 5 years minimum, probably a decade for something as radical a departure from the normal type of vaccine as this to declare it safe enough to recommend for use (not force). Obviously, there comes a point where you need to test on humans and for that, you need volunteers and so you offer fit and healthy adults a proper cash reward incentive, not granting them basic human rights with the threat of taking those rights away if they don't "volunteer".

It doesn’t help with these polarised arguments that most people are very imprecise with language. The AZ vaccine, along with some others, is not a new type of vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine, again along with some others, is a new type of vaccine, mRNA. The research into mRNA vaccines started in 1987, though the potential wasn’t fully realised at first.

[upthemaggies]

It doesn’t help with these polarised arguments that most people are very imprecise with language. The AZ vaccine, along with some others, is not a new type of vaccine. The Pfizer vaccine, again along with some others, is a new type of vaccine, mRNA. The research into mRNA vaccines started in 1987, though the potential wasn’t fully realised at first.

This is true but the AZ was causing more side-effects. Longer term that might not be the case, we can't say yet.

I've seen people suggest that mixing them up, ie people having different company boosters to their first two, will encourage mutations, but I've not looked into that. Probably something else that would need time to assess.

[drillerpie]

Isn't encouraging people to infect themselves with a novel pathogen, the long term effects of which are unclear, also an experiment?

If so, are the people doing that also Nazis?

[upthemaggies]

Isn't encouraging people to infect themselves with a novel pathogen, the long term effects of which are unclear, also an experiment?

If so, are the people doing that also Nazis?

If people were being coerced into being given the virus though an injection or sitting in an enclosed room full of the virus until they came down with it, then yes.. But as we are, people have the option of making their own risk assessment on that front, they can take precautions, you can mask up on your own outside in the middle of nowhere, avoid socialising, stay home etc, or take the jab if you believe it works.

We don't know what the long term effects of Covid are. For those that have had it, we're now being asked to accept unknown long term side effects of both Covid and the vax, which is not a reasonable request.