ot unvaccinated nhs staff

[frogmiller]

Like snails, frogs legs and horsemeat?

Never on the same plate mate! Thats an all nighter!

[fivetide]

Come on, there's a big difference between those two things, that's ridiculous trying to link them.

It's an extreme example, for a reason, but you could apply the same argument if you wanted to. here is factual evidence to support that both are beneficial for patients and both help reduce harm. Even if it means not taking up a bed or a patient missing an appointment because their surgeon is off with serious Rona when they could have been jabbed and over it in a week.

That's the big issue, the knock on effect. Would I care if the person doing my surgery was jabbed? No. Would I care I wasn't able to get life saving surgery because they were off ill when they didn't need to be? Yes.

It's like the anti-maskers. Why do surgeons wear masks if they are so useless? It beggars belief.

Remember, Meat Loaf died from Coronavirus. He was anti-vax and for some reason it wasn't widely reported but it is what killed him. Just really do not get the argument against. Especially from medical professionals.

[frogmiller]

Yes, China has undoubtedly profited from PPE sales etc, but this is not proof of any conspiracy, it merely reflects China's status as a manufacturing powerhouse and the rise in demand for certain products. Demand elsewhere will have fallen.

Move on! China is a power house and gives all of its people the free will to do exactly as they wish.

[great_fire]

It's an extreme example, for a reason, but you could apply the same argument if you wanted to. here is factual evidence to support that both are beneficial for patients and both help reduce harm. Even if it means not taking up a bed or a patient missing an appointment because their surgeon is off with serious Rona when they could have been jabbed and over it in a week.

That's the big issue, the knock on effect. Would I care if the person doing my surgery was jabbed? No. Would I care I wasn't able to get life saving surgery because they were off ill when they didn't need to be? Yes.

It's like the anti-maskers. Why do surgeons wear masks if they are so useless? It beggars belief.

Remember, Meat Loaf died from Coronavirus. He was anti-vax and for some reason it wasn't widely reported but it is what killed him. Just really do not get the argument against. Especially from medical professionals.

What about the knock-on effect from vaccine mandates and the precedent it sets that the state has control over your body?

What if they say to you, "there's a lot of people on the transplant list needing a kidney, you have two so we'll take one"?

Have you heard of the Buck v Bell decision of 1927 in the USA, where a vaccine mandate in Massachusetts was ruled to be a precedent for sterilising the "feeble minded" in Virginia? And the great "liberal" judge Oliver Wendell Holmes said: "The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell

[gm_gm]

This thread is fascinating, so many misinformed people with only a superficial understanding of what they read and interpret.

We didn't "exaggerate deaths". We have multiple methods of recording covid deaths, none of them are perfect.

There are figures for each of them. One involves counting the number of deaths during covid compared to the average in non-covid times. One of them involves counting covid deaths where it is recorded as such on the death certificate.

The reason we predominantly use the deaths within 30 days of a positive test isn't to "artificially increase the figures to create fear", its because its the best we have in terms of speed at which we can get accurate data, and the absence of subjectivity (no doctor can be accused of bias/having an agenda in how they record a death re:covid).

Yes, you get some cases that aren't deaths caused by covid, but as a metric to assess how deadly the virus is in the country at a given time relatively speaking, it's the best we have.

Yes, China has undoubtedly profited from PPE sales etc, but this is not proof of any conspiracy, it merely reflects China's status as a manufacturing powerhouse and the rise in demand for certain products. Demand elsewhere will have fallen.

Even you John must admit there's a big difference between 150,000+ and 15,700!

Counting people who went into to hospital with unrelated illnesses and died with covid after catching it in hospital is in my view massaging the figures

[Brin]

It's an extreme example, for a reason, but you could apply the same argument if you wanted to. here is factual evidence to support that both are beneficial for patients and both help reduce harm. Even if it means not taking up a bed or a patient missing an appointment because their surgeon is off with serious Rona when they could have been jabbed and over it in a week.

That's the big issue, the knock on effect. Would I care if the person doing my surgery was jabbed? No. Would I care I wasn't able to get life saving surgery because they were off ill when they didn't need to be? Yes.

It's like the anti-maskers. Why do surgeons wear masks if they are so useless? It beggars belief.

Remember, Meat Loaf died from Coronavirus. He was anti-vax and for some reason it wasn't widely reported but it is what killed him. Just really do not get the argument against. Especially from medical professionals.

''Why do surgeons wear masks if they are so useless?''.....so blood doesn't spurt in their face/mouth during operations, thought everyone knew that.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

Serious question:

Can it be proved that a jab reduces the impact of covid?

How do we know that those who were jabbed and caught it, would have had worse symptoms without it.?

Is the jab taking the credit for something that may have another explanation?

I don't know to be honest

[Brin]

Serious question:

Can it be proved that a jab reduces the impact of covid?

How do we know that those who were jabbed and caught it, would have had worse symptoms without it.?

Is the jab taking the credit for something that may have another explanation?

I don't know to be honest

All I do know is the booster jab knocked the crap out of me, felt ill for days after.

[the_idiotb_stardson]

I think a dangerous new sect is emerging: fundamentalist pro-vaxers.

It's pretty obvious now that the fear about the virus does not match its severity. It was even downgraded as an illness in March 2020.

What happens then is that those people who can't accept that they have been scared out of their wits by government scaremongering become even more militant about their original opinion.

A bit like born again Christians who cannot accept that there are inconsistencies in their views. Rather than take these on board they become even more fundamentalist....to save face.


* Just to clarify, I do think there is a virus which is very dangerous for some. Just thought I would put that in for those that do not understand nuance and shades of grey.

[ragingpup]

Serious question:

Can it be proved that a jab reduces the impact of covid?

How do we know that those who were jabbed and caught it, would have had worse symptoms without it.?

Is the jab taking the credit for something that may have another explanation?

I don't know to be honest

There is a great amount of data showing that the much greater number of people admitted to hospital and also placed on MVU are unvaccinated. Is that what you're asking? That seems to me to suggest that if you are jabbed, you are likely to have less severe symptons?