ot unvaccinated nhs staff

[Slimchance]

For sure covid has affected predominantly an older population who were statistically closer to death than the younger population, and huge number of older people have pre-existing conditions.

However it is really a dumb argument to imply that anyone who had a co-existing illness with covid didn't die of covid which is what this flawed interpretation of the ONS figures suggests.

In fact, suggesting someone who had diabetes and died of covid DIDN'T die of covid is as dumb as suggesting someone who had covid and was hit by a bus DID die of covid. Which is ironic given the line of reasoning GM has been going down.

Even though older people are closer to death, it is a flawed argument to imply they were going to die anyway. A great many of those that died of covid would have had many further years that have been taken from them.

It's flawed logic but one I see used a lot to say that older people were going to die anyway... we're all going to die anyway.

John I do not have flawed logic. I said "to say covid pushed them over the edge is hard to prove without investigation"

The investigation would be an autopsy but, as they did not take place in general, we will never know for sure.

I hope this helps.

[ragingpup]

Again, apologies rp, here in sleepy rural Lincolnshire we are struggling with non gender, multi hasn’t filtered through yet.
As a matter of interest, does non-gender fall into the multi group?

Dunno - was just being silly!

[ragingpup]

John I do not have flawed logic. I said "to say covid pushed them over the edge is hard to prove without investigation"

The investigation would be an autopsy but, as they did not take place in general, we will never know for sure.

I hope this helps.

I get that Slim. And I'm not too invested in the argument of how many died just due to covid etc. But just interested in how the argument that covid didn't directly cause as many deaths as the official stats (circa 160k?) explain the huge increase in excess deaths when compared to the previous 5 years? That seems to me a provable, objective figure and on the graph John provided, you can see the excell deaths week by week rising in tandem with the different waves of the pandemic. So my question is how is that explained if it wasn't just from heavy covid influence, even including the co-morbidities and other factors that would be there year on year?

[John2]

John I do not have flawed logic. I said "to say covid pushed them over the edge is hard to prove without investigation"

The investigation would be an autopsy but, as they did not take place in general, we will never know for sure.

I hope this helps.

To clarify I wasn't necessarily directly targeting my response at you, part of it was general, part of it was referring to some of the points gm made too.

Of course there is much subjectivity, that's why I pointed out the flaws in the various methods we have for assessing deaths and said why I thought excess deaths was a pretty good objective measure. Not had a good (or any) counter arguement yet.

[gm_gm]

lol, so this is how the cognitive dissonance manifests.

I clearly agree that people hit by busses did not die of covid - so that's a straw man completely ignoring everything I said. You then make vague inferences to something unrelated to convince yourself you're right, completely ignoring the points I made. I was curious what route you would go down.

I genuinely don't know if you're just embarrassedly trying to deflect, or if you're just that lacking in your comprehension you don't understand what I'm saying.

John in your warped opinion how many people who got run over died of Covid

[gm_gm]

lol, so this is how the cognitive dissonance manifests.

I clearly agree that people hit by busses did not die of covid - so that's a straw man completely ignoring everything I said. You then make vague inferences to something unrelated to convince yourself you're right, completely ignoring the points I made. I was curious what route you would go down.

I genuinely don't know if you're just embarrassedly trying to deflect, or if you're just that lacking in your comprehension you don't understand what I'm saying.

To everyone who is a John fan, I have no beef with him regardless of his stupid beliefs as we all have a cross to carry.

John, come to a match and meet me face to face I promise a good time

[ragingpup]

To everyone who is a John fan, I have no beef with him regardless of his stupid beliefs as we all have a cross to carry.

John, come to a match and meet me face to face I promise a good time

Not a particular fan of anyone on here. Take it post by post.

Reading the discussion between you and John, what would you say are his "stupid beliefs" on this issue relating this to the objective fact of how many excess death there have been since the precise start of the pandemic? Or more simply, as John asked (and it's quite a straightforward question) how do you explain the huge rise in excess deaths?

[MillerBill]

Crewe have added a number of players to their squad so we don't really know what to expect.We should still be good enough.

[LincsMiller]

Crewe have added a number of players to their squad so we don't really know what to expect.We should still be good enough.

Lol, MillerBill you should have started your post with an O/T

[gm_gm]

Not a particular fan of anyone on here. Take it post by post.

Reading the discussion between you and John, what would you say are his "stupid beliefs" on this issue relating this to the objective fact of how many excess death there have been since the precise start of the pandemic? Or more simply, as John asked (and it's quite a straightforward question) how do you explain the huge rise in excess deaths?

Same for you raging, big hug awaiting