ot unvaccinated nhs staff

[John2]

***FAO Grist***

Can you argue with John for me for the rest of today as I have a heavy works schedule

many thanks

I'll mark this post in the "cop-out" category. You know there's no argument you can make.

[mygiddypant]

Not a particular fan of anyone on here. Take it post by post.

Reading the discussion between you and John, what would you say are his "stupid beliefs" on this issue relating this to the objective fact of how many excess death there have been since the precise start of the pandemic? Or more simply, as John asked (and it's quite a straightforward question) how do you explain the huge rise in excess deaths?

still waiting.....

[great_fire]

Said it all along about every step of the pandemic it’s all been about Nudge nudge nudge..they have made more nudges than an old fruit machine..!.

Nudge was stage 1, coercion stage 2 and force stage 3, only Austria and Greece got to stage 3 though I think, the mildness of Omicon put a spoke in the wheels elsewhere.

Shame that this U-Turn came too late for care staff and now we're going to have illegal immigants looking after our senior citizens.

[rileyev.the.third]

Nudge was stage 1, coercion stage 2 and force stage 3, only Austria and Greece got to stage 3 though I think, the mildness of Omicon put a spoke in the wheels elsewhere.

Shame that this U-Turn came too late for care staff and now we're going to have illegal immigants looking after our senior citizens.

Would imagine there will be thousands of claims for loss of earnings, damaged mental health and the people who ended up having the jab for fear of being without an income will have something to say.

It’s a right mess, the no win no fee brigade are going to have a field day with this.

[gm_gm]

I'll mark this post in the "cop-out" category. You know there's no argument you can make.

John sorry for the delay couldn't make play time as I was busy working.

Firstly, the report regarding deaths without underlying issues I understand was obtained by someone via the ONS (not me) under TFOIA and was published in the media. I would ask that if you do not believe this information to be incorrect to challenge the media directly and not via myself. Secondly, regarding using excess deaths as your "preferred" method that's up to you, I know Pups piled on asking me what's wrong with this method? In my humble opinion there are so many variables and unknowns such as increased population, people staying in the UK as they couldn't travel abroad, increased deaths from other causes such as cancers, strokes, suicides, obesity (this was previously cited as the biggest threat to the NHS pre-covid) ...theres a few more. I dont know and neither doesnt anyone else how many of these "extra" non-covid deaths thats were as a result of the steps taken as a result of covid

[ragingpup]

John sorry for the delay couldn't make play time as I was busy working.

Firstly, the report regarding deaths without underlying issues I understand was obtained by someone via the ONS (not me) under TFOIA and was published in the media. I would ask that if you do not believe this information to be incorrect to challenge the media directly and not via myself. Secondly, regarding using excess deaths as your "preferred" method that's up to you, I know Pups piled on asking me what's wrong with this method? In my humble opinion there are so many variables and unknowns such as increased population, people staying in the UK as they couldn't travel abroad, increased deaths from other causes such as cancers, strokes, suicides, obesity (this was previously cited as the biggest threat to the NHS pre-covid) ...theres a few more. I dont know and neither doesnt anyone else how many of these "extra" non-covid deaths thats were as a result of the steps taken as a result of covid

Ok, I hear that. But then how do you account for the way that the excess deaths have pretty much increased and decreased pretty much exactly in sync of the waves of infection. If, as you suggest, these factors you suggest were true, the excess deaths would have been a constant. Wouldn't it?

Look at the excess deaths tracker for GB in the link John set up - you can see that as the infection rate went down, the excess death rate fell accordingly to normal and even sometimes below normal excess deaths? How could cancers/strokes, suicides/obesity etc rise and fall so dramatically?

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...deaths-tracker

(I still fear for Peru)

[mygiddypant]

John sorry for the delay couldn't make play time as I was busy working.

Firstly, the report regarding deaths without underlying issues I understand was obtained by someone via the ONS (not me) under TFOIA and was published in the media. I would ask that if you do not believe this information to be incorrect to challenge the media directly and not via myself. Secondly, regarding using excess deaths as your "preferred" method that's up to you, I know Pups piled on asking me what's wrong with this method? In my humble opinion there are so many variables and unknowns such as increased population, people staying in the UK as they couldn't travel abroad, increased deaths from other causes such as cancers, strokes, suicides, obesity (this was previously cited as the biggest threat to the NHS pre-covid) ...theres a few more. I dont know and neither doesnt anyone else how many of these "extra" non-covid deaths thats were as a result of the steps taken as a result of covid

Forgive me if I'm going over old ground.

The figure of 15k deaths which some (including yourself) claim to be entirely resulting from Covid represents those who have only Covid listed as a cause of death on their death certificate.

The extras that make up the much higher figure have more than one cause listed on their dc. My son has suffered from asthma for most of his adult life. He controls it with medication to the extent that it doesn't impinge on his daily routine. If he had contracted covid and died from it, both asthma and covid would have been listed on his dc. According to your logic he wouldn't have died from covid.
Have I got that right?

[KerrAvon]

John sorry for the delay couldn't make play time as I was busy working.

Firstly, the report regarding deaths without underlying issues I understand was obtained by someone via the ONS (not me) under TFOIA and was published in the media. I would ask that if you do not believe this information to be incorrect to challenge the media directly and not via myself. Secondly, regarding using excess deaths as your "preferred" method that's up to you, I know Pups piled on asking me what's wrong with this method? In my humble opinion there are so many variables and unknowns such as increased population, people staying in the UK as they couldn't travel abroad, increased deaths from other causes such as cancers, strokes, suicides, obesity (this was previously cited as the biggest threat to the NHS pre-covid) ...theres a few more. I dont know and neither doesnt anyone else how many of these "extra" non-covid deaths thats were as a result of the steps taken as a result of covid

Does it matter who sourced the report? It was you who chose to post about it without,on the face of it, applying any sort of critical thinking to it.

[gm_gm]

Forgive me if I'm going over old ground.

The figure of 15k deaths which some (including yourself)

Sorry to disappoint but I’m very much alive and kicking

[gm_gm]

Does it matter who sourced the report? It was you who chose to post about it without,on the face of it, applying any sort of critical thinking to it.

It does matter because the likes of yourselves and John usually ask for a link!!

We can all apply our own version of critical thinking dependent on where we find ourselves in the argument. If you don’t like the ONS data you should challenge it directly with them instead of hiding on a football website.