Should he stay...or should he go now?

[ramAnag]

Well, I'm not the politician, if I was all of them. But as you like to say, it isn't that simple is it?

COVID figures? You know my feelings on that. They are not being recorded fairly and that is probably true in many countries.
I was reading an interesting one yesterday(off track sorry), about a prisoner from HMP Nottingham who dies at the city hospital.
Being treated & death have been recorded as 1a Covid pneumonitis, 1b exacerbation congestive heart failure, and 2 metastasis prostate cancer. He was 87!!
Guess what his death will go down as?

Cost of living? Don't get me started, there are many reasons for that. I told you before all this confetti money for COVID was going to bite us on the ASS. Lots of it was wasted, granted, but the incessant lock downs and satying at home for a sniffle has a price.
You was firmly in the stay at home camp, now you're moaning?

Fuel crisis? Do you mean gas?
Well again, where do I start? EU countries snuggling up to Putin and now supplies have stock problems? I blame our government for not being selfish and snagging our own production for internal use, but that is about it. We import 3% of Putins gas. Germany - 40%
I also blame, the buckling in to the GREEN brigade, where you and I pay 34% on our bills to sunsidise this monstosity, that is no where near ready to replace conventional energy. Easily fixed, by getting your prioitys right

NI? Time we stopped pissing about and got tough. The EU has agitated NI from day one, in an attempt to keep a grip on the UK.
They were even rumbled saying so. Yes i KNOW, you don't believe anything unless it's in the Guardian. https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...nd-latest-news
It doesn't have to be complicated, the EU make it so. There is an element backing Barniers tactics here as well, as a Brexit cancel excuse.


The lying/rule breaking- well Johnson has to answer for it. He was in charge and like I said, he will go in the summer.

I'm afraid RA, you are doing the nornal thing, of turning everything into the TORIES did it.
COVID has messed up economies everywhere. You was firmly in the lock it all down camp. Do not come squealing now about costs.
Now you will see the reverse hurt, as people suffer in many other ways, or die from lack of treatment.

BTW you wanted Trump gone in the same way. It seems Biden is now firmly being given the label of worst president ever in the USA. But all the Trump haters have gone very quiet.

Politics is a fickle thing isn't it?

Hang on, ‘turning everything into the TORIES did it’? Okay...as far as Covid is concerned...that’s been unprecedented and is probably at 1-1 in terms of, worst death figures in Europe (no hiding from that) vs did well on the vaccine roll out (I’ve always acknowledged that).
As for everything else...ask yourself which Party has been in charge, three dreadful PM’s later, for the last (very nearly) dozen years.

Regarding Trump...MA has already explained perfectly. Trump haters have gone quiet because the object of their dislike has himself been silent.
Personally I don’t rate Biden at all...never have done, but he still appears as a blessed relief after the most divisive and insane Potus ever.

[Andy_Faber]

worst death figures in Europe

Almost. 16th worst

[ramAnag]

Almost. 16th worst

Hmmm. I’m sure there’s some sort of evasive semantic argument coming from you here but, the last time I looked...157,409 made us the 7th highest in the World and the highest in Europe. Those are figures I struggle to be proud of.

P.S. Tricky...I take your point and it has occurred to me that all that is keeping him in post is the abject assortment of possible alternatives. I mean Truss, Raab, Gove and Patel. God help us!

[Andy_Faber]

Hmmm. I’m sure there’s some sort of semantic argument coming from you here but, the last time I looked...157,409 made us the 7th highest in the World and the highest in Europe. Those are figures I struggle to be proud of.

Not semantics, just a fact on a per capita basis. I'll take a lesson on geography, some of these may not be Europe but on a per capita basis UK has a lower death rate than Bulgaria, Boznia/Herzegovina, Hungary, North Macedonia, Georgia, Moldova, Chechia, Croatia, Slovakia, Rumania, Lithuania, Slovenia, Poland, Latvia, Belgium, Italy and Ukraine and its actually 19th not 16th. Tragic as every death is, absolute numbers are irrelevant as a measure of success in managing the pandemic, size has to be recognised

[ramAnag]

Not semantics, just a fact on a per capita basis. I'll take a lesson on geography, some of these may not be Europe but on a per capita basis UK has a lower death rate than Bulgaria, Boznia/Herzegovina, Hungary, North Macedonia, Georgia, Moldova, Chechia, Croatia, Slovakia, Rumania, Lithuania, Slovenia, Poland, Latvia, Belgium, Italy and Ukraine and its actually 19th not 16th. Tragic as every death is, absolute numbers are irrelevant as a measure of success in managing the pandemic, size has to be recognised

You have a point. We do have the highest Covid figures in Europe, as I have always maintained, but not on a per capita basis as you correctly point out.
On the other hand most of the countries you mention are part of the old ‘Eastern Europe’. I haven’t checked your figures but perhaps if we consider those countries not on the list you have provided eg...Germany, France, Spain, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Ireland, Iceland, Portugal, Switzerland, Austria...i.e. virtually all the major Western European nations...you’ll recognise the need to abandon any complacency.

So...highest/greatest number of deaths related to Covid in Europe? Correct...but not on a per capita basis which, to my mind, remains hardly a cause for celebration.

[Andy_Faber]

You have a point. We do have the highest Covid figures in Europe, as I have always maintained, but not on a per capita basis as you correctly point out.
On the other hand most of the countries you mention are part of the old ‘Eastern Europe’. I haven’t checked your figures but perhaps if we consider those countries not on the list you have provided eg...Germany, France, Spain, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Ireland, Iceland, Portugal, Switzerland, Austria...i.e. virtually all the major Western European nations...you’ll recognise the need to abandon any complacency.

So...highest/greatest number of deaths related to Covid in Europe? Correct...but not on a per capita basis which, to my mind, remains hardly a cause for celebration.

Not celebrating any of it RA, just clarifying. It’s a wider point as well, this discussion is just between (supposed) friends, but in the (supposed) professional media there is too much of this unfounded, out of context i fact checked stuff

[ramAnag]

Not celebrating any of it RA, just clarifying. It’s a wider point as well, this discussion is just between (supposed) friends, but in the (supposed) professional media there is too much of this unfounded, out of context i fact checked stuff

It’s hardly unfounded, Andy...and you are resorting to semantics. We do have the HIGHEST Covid related death rate in Europe...that is a fact.

If you want to define WORST by associating it only on a per capita basis that’s a reasonable point, but when you do so by then having to compare us with largely Eastern European countries that have an ongoing history of being much less wealthy and established than ourselves you lose some of the credibility of you argument.

To be clear...we have the HIGHEST Covid related death rate in Europe...the seventh HIGHEST in the World and even on a strictly per capita basis we are amongst the WORST in Europe and the third WORST of the comparable old EU countries.

At a time when our beleaguered Prime Minister and his paralysed Government are constantly defending themselves by repeatedly saying ‘look how well we got you through the pandemic’ forgive me for thinking of this as yet another Johnson perpetuated myth.

P.S. rA rA land...LOL! But when was the last time we had to compare ourselves to ‘majestic’ North Macedonia and which bit of the above is a ‘bent out of shape statistic’, GP?

P.P.S. Seems there may not be any more Downing Street Parties anyway...they’ve all bu**ered off.

[Trickytreesreds]

Hang on, ‘turning everything into the TORIES did it’? Okay...as far as Covid is concerned...that’s been unprecedented and is probably at 1-1 in terms of, worst death figures in Europe (no hiding from that) vs did well on the vaccine roll out (I’ve always acknowledged that).
As for everything else...ask yourself which Party has been in charge, three dreadful PM’s later, for the last (very nearly) dozen years.

Regarding Trump...MA has already explained perfectly. Trump haters have gone quiet because the object of their dislike has himself been silent.
Personally I don’t rate Biden at all...never have done, but he still appears as a blessed relief after the most divisive and insane Potus ever.

Well your opinion is yours and valid.
It seems the American public now think he;s the biggest lemon they've voted in.
Only 33% of yanks are happy with the economy and his ratings are falling as fast as he falls asleep. Please feel free to compare that to Trumps handling of the economy.
Your personal feeling of a divisive Potus are yours.
Yet 54% of Americans brand him as the worst president they ever had.
A mannequin wouldn't say anything controversial, neither would it put food on the table and do whats right for the country.
But hey, that's my opinion. Just be careful who you would want in Johnsons place, over here.