The dilemma with Roberts

[jackal2]

Bit of a balancing act overall but hard to shake the feeling that to get the best of our current personnel it has to be a 4-2-3-1, with Roberts, Ruben and possibly even Sam (good today) or Brunt/Nemane behind Wootton, and Palmer and Vincent as the deeper two.

I agree.

I must confess I haven't liked the 4-2-3-1 formation ever since the days of Keith Curle, but it does seem to me to be the one best suited to the personnel we currently have. In fact I thought it was the plan when I saw our signings last summer. The key to its success is that the three attacking midfielders have to be genuine goal threats, which they were not under Curle, but I'd say we've got that goal-scoring ability in the likes of Roberts, Sam, Rodrigues and maybe Nemane and Brunt too if they were deployed in that formation.

IB certainly needs to try something different, because trying to shoehorn certain players into a 3-5-2/3-4-3 formation isn't working consistently. One way or another we always seem to have at least one of our best players looking out of sorts.

[the_anticlough]

I agree.

I must confess I haven't liked the 4-2-3-1 formation ever since the days of Keith Curle, but it does seem to me to be the one best suited to the personnel we currently have. In fact I thought it was the plan when I saw our signings last summer. The key to its success is that the three attacking midfielders have to be genuine goal threats, which they were not under Curle, but I'd say we've got that goal-scoring ability in the likes of Roberts, Sam, Rodrigues and maybe Nemane and Brunt too if they were deployed in that formation.

IB certainly needs to try something different, because trying to shoehorn certain players into a 3-5-2/3-4-3 formation isn't working consistently. One way or another we always seem to have at least one of our best players looking out of sorts.

Regarding 3-5-2....even with the right wide CBs, proper wing-backs and a good holding midfielder...it's still bloody hard to perm 4 of our creative/attacking players to complete the team. That shows you just how tough it is to pull off a good 3-5-2.
I've been wanting 4-2-3-1 from the start...
I still think you'd get good attacking contributions from Richardson/Taylor/Chicksen/DKE etc as full backs because they'd be coming on to the ball from deep with space ahead rather than receiving it tightly marked further up the pitch.

But the players have had drills and patterns based on 3-5-2 for ages now. Are we desperate enough to throw that away for something new? Maybe not (yet)

[jackal2]

But the players have had drills and patterns based on 3-5-2 for ages now. Are we desperate enough to throw that away for something new? Maybe not (yet)

But if not now, when? We're getting into 'crunch' time.

Earlier in the season I was willing to tolerate us dropping some silly points, mostly to lesser opposition, on the grounds that the players were still learning to adapt to IB's system, but if the last three games have proved anything it's that the players either aren't learning from those earlier lessons, or more fundamentally that the formation just isn't betting the best out of them consistently enough.

[BigFatPie]

It’s a bit of a worry that a coach as good as IB is hasn’t yet worked out a system that gets the best out of both Roberts and Rodrigues. Or that he refuses to drop obviously out of form players. Instead he shoehorns his ‘best’ 11 into a system that doesn’t suit them.

[the_anticlough]

Good points.
But a win against Barnet should allow them to paper over the cracks...
This must be a really difficult time for IB, questioning himself on whether this is fixable without making radical changes

Vincent plays with the most joy and childlike enthusiasm of anyone in the squad - hope that's still intact, because the first thing I'd want to see is him getting his place back

[SaltySeaDog]

Vincent plays with the most joy and childlike enthusiasm of anyone in the squad - hope that's still intact, because the first thing I'd want to see is him getting his place back

Really surprised he's been dropped tbh

[the_anticlough]

Really surprised he's been dropped tbh

I was at Wealdstone and saw him have a poor half (one of many players that night) but his replacement after HT did no better, and at least Vincent was giving it his all before being subbed.
You're more likely to lose your place if someone comes in and does better - we can't say that

[BigFatPie]

Watching Forest reminds me that Frank Vincent is the closest thing we’ve had to an energetic box to box midfielder since Ryan Yates was here. Nonexistent God only knows who IB thinks will replace that when he drops him.

[drillerpie]

Watching Forest reminds me that Frank Vincent is the closest thing we’ve had to an energetic box to box midfielder since Ryan Yates was here. Nonexistent God only knows who IB thinks will replace that when he drops him.

Yep, I was watching him and thinking pretty much the same. He's not exactly what you'd call a ball player (still a decent footballer though), but an asbolute demon in midfield and great at set pieces, and he slots beautifully into a footballing team.

I think we could learn a lot from this Forest team. They play football but mostly in a forwards fashion, lots of intensity, beating players with power and pace as well as neat passing. Just what we're missing.