OT perspective/ Ukraine/Russia

[Geoff Parkstone]

I thought that. That’s two mildly contentious posts of yours that I’ve largely agreed with in the last two days. What’s going on? Almost like the old days.

Could you have a word with your ‘mate’ the senior administrator while you’re on a roll?

Shortly you will wake up in a shower and wander around the house whilst realising nothing has actually changed.........

[ramAnag]

We’re going way off topic here but, has anyone ever suggested that Asians aren’t capable of racism, GP? If so I’d take little notice of them as, sadly, all races are obviously capable of racism...it’s just that, imo, those who are white tend to be most dominant in the wealthier parts of the world which makes their ‘racism’ more pernicious.

I also don’t think Swale, or anyone else, has ever typified Brexiteers as ‘evil’ or Remainers as ‘saintly’. Clearly most, including yourself and AF believed Brexit to make little sense for the most practical and economic of reasons. Equally I’m sure there were Brexiteers, I know personally of at least two, who favoured Brexit for no other reason than that they were opposed to any concept of a USofE. That is reasoning I for one can respect although, ironically, as things have transpired over recent days and weeks, that is precisely what we need, as never before, right now.

What I think we can define as both ‘evil’ and ‘thick’ is racism. I’m sure there are some very ‘clever’ people willing to use racism as a means of social engineering and maintaining white supremacy in one form or another, however to practically support any racist philosophy is, imo, fundamentally wrong and divisive not to mention, morally bankrupt and backward. I’m sure not all Brexiteers are racist, but I’m sadly equally certain that many, probably the majority, who voted for Brexit did so for racist reasons.

[Andy_Faber]

yes, thats what I understand from it, but of course the percentages may differ with interpreter - Swale MAY consider all evil Brexiteers to be racist but no saintly Remainers to be tainted with such characteristic - thus 37% of the country might be racists (thick or otherwise) under his definition, and 65% in your definition.

Which leaves me in something of a quandry - one of my best friends is Asian and voted Leave? Where does this leave these 3 people? Are they self haters, because we know from past debate that you cannot be racist against white people?

I’ll answer that by pointing out that two of my quorum were Asians and their prejudice was actually based on religion (strongly but not wholly linked to race).

[Andy_Faber]

We’re going way off topic here but, has anyone ever suggested that Asians aren’t capable of racism, GP? If so I’d take little notice of them as, sadly, all races are obviously capable of racism...it’s just that, imo, those who are white tend to be most dominant in the wealthier parts of the world which makes their ‘racism’ more pernicious.

I also don’t think Swale, or anyone else, has ever typified Brexiteers as ‘evil’ or Remainers as ‘saintly’. Clearly most, including yourself and AF believed Brexit to make little sense for the most practical and economic of reasons. Equally I’m sure there were Brexiteers, I know personally of at least two, who favoured Brexit for no other reason than that they were opposed to any concept of a USofE. That is reasoning I for one can respect although, ironically, as things have transpired over recent days and weeks, that is precisely what we need, as never before, right now.

What I think we can define as both ‘evil’ and ‘thick’ is racism. I’m sure there are some very ‘clever’ people willing to use racism as a means of social engineering and maintaining white supremacy in one form or another, however to practically support any racist philosophy is, imo, fundamentally wrong and divisive not to mention, morally bankrupt and backward. I’m sure not all Brexiteers are racist, but I’m sadly equally certain that many, probably the majority, who voted for Brexit did so for racist reasons.

Yes we’re off topic

What’s your view on sanctions? IMO it should be as absolute as possible, including cancelling Russian sporting and cultural links, and boycotting Russian goods and services. BUT I recognise my double standards as, when I tried to ‘cancel’ my relationship with China in support of a Uyghur workmate I just found it impossible and gave up (in fact so did she).

[ramAnag]

My view is that I don’t really feel sufficiently well equipped to offer an opinion beyond what you have already said.
I agree completely with what you’ve written but I’m also aware that we are in a relatively privileged position, both geographically and because we are not as dependent upon Russian oil and gas as those Europeans I still consider as our ‘neighbours’.
Either way I doubt sanctions will work quickly but they are better than the unthinkable alternative.

P.S. I also have grave concerns over the UK government’s political/financial links with the Russian oligarchs and all that involves.

[Trickytreesreds]

Trump warned about German dependence on Russian oil and gas, 2 years ago.They laughed at him.
Now the number one economy in Europe is panicking.

As for a USE now? The Russians don't like ex bloc countries joining NATO. Why would a USE make things any better?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Yes we’re off topic

What’s your view on sanctions? IMO it should be as absolute as possible, including cancelling Russian sporting and cultural links, and boycotting Russian goods and services. BUT I recognise my double standards as difficult to when I tried to ‘cancel’ my relationship with China in support of a Uyghur workmate I just found it impossible and gave up (in fact so did she).

Its very difficult to achieve sanctions at a personal level - I've tried not using 8% of my gas and 6% of my electricity and it doesn't work. I have boycotted going to see Chelsea or watching them on TV but there is so little that I interact with that is definably Russian.

its maybe easier for rA as he can stop eating all that Beluga caviar and drinking Stolichniya vodka (although I think that's made i Latvia now)

[Andy_Faber]

My view is that I don’t really feel sufficiently well equipped to offer an opinion beyond what you have already said.
I agree completely with what you’ve written but I’m also aware that we are in a relatively privileged position, both geographically and because we are not as dependent upon Russian oil and gas as those Europeans I still consider as our ‘neighbours’.
Either way I doubt sanctions will work quickly but they are better than the unthinkable alternative.

P.S. I also have grave concerns over the UK government’s political/financial links with the Russian oligarchs and all that involves.

Agree with the last bit although you would prob lean more towards sleaze/lining of already well lined pockets and I’d lean more towards globalisation in general

[swaledale]

Trump warned about German dependence on Russian oil and gas, 2 years ago.They laughed at him.
Now the number one economy in Europe is panicking.

As for a USE now? The Russians don't like ex bloc countries joining NATO. Why would a USE make things any better?

OH dear! I wish I hadn't looked at this now, so much thats wrong and incorrect but what can you expect from Thicky?

[swaledale]

Yes we’re off topic

What’s your view on sanctions? IMO it should be as absolute as possible, including cancelling Russian sporting and cultural links, and boycotting Russian goods and services. BUT I recognise my double standards as, when I tried to ‘cancel’ my relationship with China in support of a Uyghur workmate I just found it impossible and gave up (in fact so did she).

Oh dear more bull****!