New Buyer Progress

[ramAnag]

GP...firstly in your financial capacity and secondly as a supporter of DCFC...what would you say to anyone who doubts the credibility of any potential buyer who has a) allowed things to ‘slide’ since the Boro’ situation was resolved, and b) now appears to lack the urgency to resolve matters before a fif**** point penalty for next season becomes inevitable?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'd say there are a lot of hyenas around looking to get the club on the cheap in the hope that DCFC can survive in L1 with the points deduction and thrive further down the line. Derby has good potential if run properly, a good academy and a loyal but deluded fanbase (aren't we all).

They would appear to be, in estate agent terns, gazundering one another and quite happy to see the club go further downhill before buying. I doubt any of the owners are Derby fans (look what the last one of those did to us), so just trying to pick up a bargain - like the hyenas picking off the weakest in the herd as the gnu cross Tanzania.

Let's just hope all those people wanting to buy Chelsea now look around for something more reasonable. After all the value of Derby has fallen so far it's hard to see it going any further while remaining viable.

[swaledale]

Winviz is going back up into the 80's, things looking gloomy. trouble being as our league position slides, the purchase price slides but the debts dont. Thus the 100% football creditors, 25% all other creditors comes under increased pressure. if its League 1, it looks like League 1 minus 15 now

Except for one thing, we were "odds on for relegation" with a 21pts deduction, so what's changed for any bidder? In fact as we seemed to be within touching distance of a miraculous escape, surely the impetus would be for a potential buyer to do it quickly and be able to strengthen the squad to further aid the possibility of escaping relegation?


So it seems therefore that it doesn't matter which league we are in, the only aim is to try and get the club as cheap as possible, but as has already been pointed out, Bury folded because no bid was acceptable to the creditors.

Whilst its true tat assets in terms of players are few and far between, non tangible assets such as the customer (fan base), plus the acquisition of the stadium would put any owner in the position of having a football club that had massive potential.

HMRC won't be bullied, the principle of not allowing clubs and other businesses to get away with none payment, would appear to be more important than actually collecting on the debt. So if no bid is acceptable, it will be liquidation and I actually think thats where this is heading.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Can't disagree too much, hence my Winviz has gone back up to 80%

[ramAnag]

Except for one thing, we were "odds on for relegation" with a 21pts deduction, so what's changed for any bidder? In fact as we seemed to be within touching distance of a miraculous escape, surely the impetus would be for a potential buyer to do it quickly and be able to strengthen the squad to further aid the possibility of escaping relegation?

That was precisely my point...and I simply don’t understand the motivation of any credible potential buyer to have not seized the opportunity
to cut a deal a month or so ago when the dual possibilities of escaping relegation and squad strengthening were much more likely.

I suppose it’s easy for us, non financially expert fans, to criticise the administrators. I’d like one of those who is more ‘in the know’ regarding the complexities of finance and accountancy, to explain what, if anything, they have achieved, other than probably lining their own pockets and seeing us slip deeper and deeper into the mire, since their involvement began last September.

[Andy_Faber]

That was precisely my point...and I simply don’t understand the motivation of any credible potential buyer to have not seized the opportunity
to cut a deal a month or so ago when the dual possibilities of escaping relegation and squad strengthening were much more likely.

I suppose it’s easy for us, non financially expert fans, to criticise the administrators. I’d like one of those who is more ‘in the know’ regarding the complexities of finance and accountancy, to explain what, if anything, they have achieved, other than probably lining their own pockets and seeing us slip deeper and deeper into the mire, since their involvement began last September.

Im neither defending the admins nor otherwise but from my time working in this very approx area in a corporate setting (Swale, do your worst son!), there is no limit to the amount of jerking about that buyers, creditors, local authorities blah blah can indulge in. Did your last house sale/purchase go perfectly smoothly? No? Multiply that aggro by 100 or more. Again, reflection either way on the admins, just setting the scene

[Geoff Parkstone]

1. They have stopped us going into immediate liquidation as we were clearly insolvent the minute Mel truned the tap off
2. They have kept the club running despite a dearth of cash without selling all of the playing assets
3. They have drummed up some interest in buying the club - bear in mind that is akin to getting interest in buying a knackered car with many many parts needing fixing and which is likely to fail its MOT and potentially get crushed - and neither one of them wants to blink first, as they are both playing the waiting game: as are the administrators

Its obviously hard to fathom potential buyers reasoning, but two now have pulled out that we know off citing delays - the first of which was beyond administrators control I imagine. The latest, Binnie, withdrawl has also been blamed on this but, reading between the lines, it looks like the administrators told them that their bid wasnt enough, so they pulled out. Problem with three bidders was, and with two will continue to be, the fact that they are looking to buy a wasting asset, and so will be wanting to pay less as time goes on.

Three months ago they may have also seen it as a wasting asset and realised that there was no point paying December's value for something that was declining.

The end result to my mind is that the value of the club has declined (in bid terms) to such a level that it will not meet the criteria for coming out of admin "cleanly" or necessarily enable an acceptable offer to be made to the creditors (mostly HMRC, MSD is fine as there is a charge over the ground - although what that is wirth in this meltdown scenario is questionable - and I imagine personal guarantees from MM). So regardless of will we get a 15 point deduction in League 1, we have to contend with the question of whether HMRC would even accept an offer now, at below 25%, in view of the precedent it sets. it could be that they prefer the option of a fire sale liquidation, rather than set a role model for future clubs to not pay their tax liability........ a tax liability that would help meet he contiuing emands for increased government spending on, amongst other things Refugee relief.

So in summary, in seeking to get the best deal the bidders may have killed the goose that lays the rather tarnished egg

[ramAnag]

Im neither defending the admins nor otherwise but from my time working in this very approx area in a corporate setting (Swale, do your worst son!), there is no limit to the amount of jerking about that buyers, creditors, local authorities blah blah can indulge in. Did your last house sale/purchase go perfectly smoothly? No? Multiply that aggro by 100 or more. Again, reflection either way on the admins, just setting the scene

I do wish you’d stop claiming parentage of Swale.

Take your point, though the last time I sold my house it did go fairly smoothly...we had a ‘preferred bidder’ within three days and it certainly didn’t take anything like seven months to make zero progress. If it had I’d have sacked those concerned, as I did 15 years ago when those concerned with the sale of my mother’s flat seemed to be about as useless as Quantuma over DCFC.

P.S. Just read GP’s response and I do appreciate his more informed perspective.

[Trickytreesreds]

1. They have stopped us going into immediate liquidation as we were clearly insolvent the minute Mel truned the tap off
2. They have kept the club running despite a dearth of cash without selling all of the playing assets
3. They have drummed up some interest in buying the club - bear in mind that is akin to getting interest in buying a knackered car with many many parts needing fixing and which is likely to fail its MOT and potentially get crushed - and neither one of them wants to blink first, as they are both playing the waiting game: as are the administrators

Its obviously hard to fathom potential buyers reasoning, but two now have pulled out that we know off citing delays - the first of which was beyond administrators control I imagine. The latest, Binnie, withdrawl has also been blamed on this but, reading between the lines, it looks like the administrators told them that their bid wasnt enough, so they pulled out. Problem with three bidders was, and with two will continue to be, the fact that they are looking to buy a wasting asset, and so will be wanting to pay less as time goes on.

Three months ago they may have also seen it as a wasting asset and realised that there was no point paying December's value for something that was declining.

The end result to my mind is that the value of the club has declined (in bid terms) to such a level that it will not meet the criteria for coming out of admin "cleanly" or necessarily enable an acceptable offer to be made to the creditors (mostly HMRC, MSD is fine as there is a charge over the ground - although what that is wirth in this meltdown scenario is questionable - and I imagine personal guarantees from MM). So regardless of will we get a 15 point deduction in League 1, we have to contend with the question of whether HMRC would even accept an offer now, at below 25%, in view of the precedent it sets. it could be that they prefer the option of a fire sale liquidation, rather than set a role model for future clubs to not pay their tax liability........ a tax liability that would help meet he contiuing emands for increased government spending on, amongst other things Refugee relief.

So in summary, in seeking to get the best deal the bidders may have killed the goose that lays the rather tarnished egg

That's a horror story GP.

So not selling earlier, could be a death choke?

[Geoff Parkstone]

and we couldnt sell earlier because of Middlesbro...........so Gibson "did the right thing" because he had caused sufficient damage already

Mind you this is all speculative on my part