The curse of Orta

[WTF11]

You know what the worst curses have been:

Getting back to the PL after 15 years.
Getting Bielsa as manager
Getting Raphinha, Meslier, Struijk, Llorente, Koch, Bamford, Gelhardt, Summerville, Alioski etc etc

Turning a rotting club of miserable decade + of misery and depression into a fan base of positivity and actually enjoying going.

We can trade lists of successes v failures Joel, I suspect the one I produce would be MUCH longer (and a hell of a lot more costly to the club.

And Orta wasn't the person who obtained the best from a squad that got us to the PL and that was mostly in place before we employed his "skills" at recruitment.

Please don't suggest that it was Orta who achieved the turnaround (which I'm not questioning), not with his track record (and btw, Alioski joined LUFC before a month after Orta arrived, not sure he can claim credit for the Macedonian (wouldn't stop him trying I guess) and as for Summerville, hardly a track record yet to judge whether good bad or indifferent. I notice you exclude the two record signings, Rodrigo and James, between them cost over £50m. And as the thread suggests, we may have to pay for at least some of the time JKA DIDN'T play for us in order to escape a transfer embargo in the summer (oh, and Cassilla is still rinsing LUFC for £50k/week, and there is always the spry little Costa chappy to consider (and Roberts, and and and.....I told you my list would be longer than yours, and I haven't even tried hard)

Club would be a damned sight better off in many respects, not least financially, if we had dispensed with the whole idea of a DoF

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

We can trade lists of successes v failures Joel, I suspect the one I produce would be MUCH longer (and a hell of a lot more costly to the club.

And Orta wasn't the person who obtained the best from a squad that got us to the PL and that was mostly in place before we employed his "skills" at recruitment.

Please don't suggest that it was Orta who achieved the turnaround (which I'm not questioning), not with his track record (and btw, Alioski joined LUFC before a month after Orta arrived, not sure he can claim credit for the Macedonian (wouldn't stop him trying I guess) and as for Summerville, hardly a track record yet to judge whether good bad or indifferent. I notice you exclude the two record signings, Rodrigo and James, between them cost over £50m. And as the thread suggests, we may have to pay for at least some of the time JKA DIDN'T play for us in order to escape a transfer embargo in the summer (oh, and Cassilla is still rinsing LUFC for £50k/week, and there is always the spry little Costa chappy to consider (and Roberts, and and and.....I told you my list would be longer than yours, and I haven't even tried hard)

Club would be a damned sight better off in many respects, not least financially, if we had dispensed with the whole idea of a DoF

As likely to be consensus on whether Marmite is enjoyable as on the issue of Orta and also far from a binary question.

[WTF11]

I forgot, there will be interest to pay, so that 48 minutes will have cost LUFC the princely sum of £500k/minute,

https://www.footballtransfertavern.c...gustin-update/

So, a really "good bit of business" eh BB?

[spaldy]

Not being argumentative but....

I suspect that LUFC is worth a lot more now that it was under Bates. I know there are all kinds of measure of success but few are better that what someone's willing to pay you for something.

i believe that Orta brought in Raph. If we sell him for $75 million+ we'll be way dollars ahead on all of the transfer fees that Orta has brought in even with the 22 million that KJA cost us.

He did get us MB and he did not sell Phillips, Bamford, Meslier or Raph early. All of which would have happened under previous regimes.

[WTF11]

Not being argumentative but....

I suspect that LUFC is worth a lot more now that it was under Bates. I know there are all kinds of measure of success but few are better that what someone's willing to pay you for something.

i believe that Orta brought in Raph. If we sell him for $75 million+ we'll be way dollars ahead on all of the transfer fees that Orta has brought in even with the 22 million that KJA cost us.

He did get us MB and he did not sell Phillips, Bamford, Meslier or Raph early. All of which would have happened under previous regimes.

Not a case of being argumentative (and I agree, you're not being), simply that around £70m (conservative estimate) of club funds have been squandered on "players" who were either wannabees and never were, or never were's who weren't spotted as such. Of course LUFC is worth more now we're in the PL, that doesn't negate the fact that maximising how we invest in new players would have been far more profitable had it not been for the involvement of our cry-baby, play-acting waste of space DoF.

As for who was brought in following Bielsa arrival, such as Rahina, the mechanics of contract negotiation/signature don't need rocket science (nor a footballing genius) just a damned good commercial manager (something else Orta sadly lacks, you only have to look at the Roberts and Costa contract extensions for evidence (notwithstanding the f00k-up that the JKA situation represents)).

His selling has been equally inept, having lost money on every player sold since he became DoF (and the reason LUFC didn't sell the players you refer to was the arrival of Bielsa, and all sales would have to have been sanctioned by him and Radrizzani, nothing to do with Orta).

[whitestomper45]

You don't like any of this regime, we get that... but eh... they have achieved promotion, we are in the top league with massive crowds, which followed on from the massive crowds in the Championship.

But keep promoting the errors... if they're getting at least 51% of thigs right, which they have, then the regime you keep pulling up is pushing the club forward. Maybe you preferred the stagnant club that would jump to sell any player over £3M to first bidder

If we go down this season, we will be much better club than the one before this all started 3 years ago. Parachute payments, better players overall, better training ground... my list too could go on... but it will become the usual good/bad thread...

[WTF11]

You don't like any of this regime, we get that... but eh... they have achieved promotion, we are in the top league with massive crowds, which followed on from the massive crowds in the Championship.

But keep promoting the errors... if they're getting at least 51% of thigs right, which they have, then the regime you keep pulling up is pushing the club forward. Maybe you preferred the stagnant club that would jump to sell any player over £3M to first bidder

If we go down this season, we will be much better club than the one before this all started 3 years ago. Parachute payments, better players overall, better training ground... my list too could go on... but it will become the usual good/bad thread...

Thats where, not for the first time, you (and others, are wrong. I like some of what Radrizzani has done, but as with all owners (just about) his record isn't perfect (he's human, how can it be). He got ER back, very good. He brought in Kinnear, who has his faults as we all do, but whos heart I believe is in the right place, also good. He brought in Orta, well two out of three aint bad, so the song goes. He made up for that faux pas by getting Bielsa, and the rest, (up to press) as they say, is history.

Massive crowds have next to **** all to do with ANY owner. we topped the attendance stats when we were in League 1 never mind the Championship, and many Championship clubs looked at our figures with awe and jealousy, as did many PL clubs when we were promoted back to the second tier. If you don't know that then you have no right to call yourself a Leeds supporter. The fans have and I dearly hope will remain the lifeblood of the club, I just wish the owners (all of them) were worthy of the core support this club has enjoyed over decades.

The "regime I keep pulling up" is no less capable of pi55ing money away than those that preceded it, there is just a lot more to be pi55ed away, and there are those in the upper echelons who appear not to care (apart from crying the odd few crocodile tears, when they think that their hallowed existence in the PL might just be extended, no thanks to their efforts). "Pushing the club forward" is not equitable with a situation where we got found out, we failed to invest in order to counter the opposition in our second season of the PL, yet all who post here could see it was required. The "investments" the club HAS made are questionable to say the least (one standout amongst over £70m of expenditure is NOT a satisfactory for a newly promoted club in the PL).

As for the prospects if we get relegated, not sure what you have been smoking but if you want to understand where we will be, you should stop. We will probably get around £60m in parachute payments, we will lose money on just about every player (including Raphina, given the reduced cost of his release clause (another master stroke by our commercial management aka Orta)), we will see Meslier, Raphina, James, Struijk, Phillips, Gelhardt, Bate, Summerville, Crysenco (not sure if I spelt that right, but you get the drift), and any others who have talent and potential, exit stage left. We will be left with those "better players overall", such as Roberts, Rodrigo, James, Cooper, Koch, Llorente, Dallas (unfortunately, wish he could look forward to better), and please don't think there will be a 49-ers charger coming over the hill, they won't exercise any option to buy the remaining shares from Radrizzani and he won't be able to give them away to anyone else

And there is little point having the most prestigious training ground in the Championship, if you have a squad of has-beens and never-weres to stock it.

(And they AREN'T getting 51% of their decisions right, if they were we wouldn't be in a relegation scrap).

Survival in the PL is a MUST, there is no other way forward.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Thats where, not for the first time, you (and others, are wrong.

Don’t fall into the trap of believing one’s own hubris!

[WTF11]

Don’t fall into the trap of believing one’s own hubris!

The following statement (which you paraphrase) has nothing to do with hubris, or anything else to do with my opinions or capabilities, it's a simple statement of fact, which you would see if you read and understood it.

"That's where, not for the first time, you (and others), are wrong. I like some of what Radrizzani has done,...."

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

The following statement (which you paraphrase) has nothing to do with hubris, or anything else to do with my opinions or capabilities, it's a simple statement of fact, which you would see if you read and understood it.

"That's where, not for the first time, you (and others), are wrong. I like some of what Radrizzani has done,...."

Oh I fully understood it - you were asserting you were right and anyone else who disagreed was wrong.

I suppose it’s slightly more civil that the old retort of insulting anyone who disagreed with you - so progress of sorts.