O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[MadAmster]

Have to respectfully disagree, MA. The difference between pandemic and endemic has nothing to do with the severity of an illness and everything to do with the ease with which it spreads.
We are in no way ‘post pandemic’ because Covid continues to spread with ease and, as ever, doesn’t respect regional or national borders.
The only reason it is now, largely, less severe is because of the impact of vaccination but scientists, as opposed to politicians, are still urging caution and the removal of free tests - especially a a time of widespread financial hardship - is, imo, a huge mistake.

So, you're saying the flu is still Pandemic as well as Corona? Flu spreads very easily when it's "in season" and in particularly bad years the death toll is horrendous.

[MadAmster]

So, basically you are saying flu is still pandemic? Flu continues to spread with ease and, as ever, doesn’t respect regional or national borders.

[swaledale]

Have to respectfully disagree, MA. The difference between pandemic and endemic has nothing to do with the severity of an illness and everything to do with the ease with which it spreads.
We are in no way ‘post pandemic’ because Covid continues to spread with ease and, as ever, doesn’t respect regional or national borders.
The only reason it is now, largely, less severe is because of the impact of vaccination but scientists, as opposed to politicians, are still urging caution and the removal of free tests - especially a a time of widespread financial hardship - is, imo, a huge mistake.

I'm not sure that is the whole story though rA, the Omicron variant is more infectious but less severe in its effects on people, even those who have not had the vaccination. Which is basically what would be expected, viruses tend to get less severe as they develop because killing their host would over time be fatal for the virus as well obviously.

Yes undoubtedly vaccination has reduced hospitalisation amongst those people with underlying health issues and probably some others and over time as the vaccines are further developed will be more effective in reducing infection. Certainly there is much that can be done now to prevent or reduce infection which isn't limiting on people's lives or behaviour, but it is interesting that Sweden, which didn't lock down actually coped pretty well.

It is also the case that many who died of Covid, would more than likely have died due to some other respiratory disease and many recorded deaths, were people who died 28 days after a positive test, but not necessarily due to Covid. A more nuanced approach by the government with testing still being maintained etc. would be more sensible, but we are going to have to learn to live with it.

[MadAmster]

So, basically you are saying flu is still pandemic? Flu continues to spread with ease and, as ever, doesn’t respect regional or national borders.

Just had a look at the CDC flu stats for the USA last year. Just 2100 confirmed cases of flu, a figure way below the usual number of flu deaths. Of those 2100, just over 700 died. A much higher death rate than Covid....

[ramAnag]

So, basically you are saying flu is still pandemic? Flu continues to spread with ease and, as ever, doesn’t respect regional or national borders.

Fair point, well made, MA...and yes, were it not for the long established global vaccination programmes I have no doubt that flu would have retained/regained its pandemic ‘status’.

As regards your later point about flu case numbers. Is it not likely to be the case that flu numbers have decreased because, in part, of the increased amount of mask wearing over the last two years?

I’m not actually arguing with you, and I accept Swale’s point about ‘having to learn to live with it’ entirely. I’ve just seen enough recently to convince me more than ever that people are like sheep (not Rams) and that this Government is actually frightened of now appearing to tell people what to do so anxious is it to claim the credit for ending the pandemic.

Think back though for a moment to the introduction of seat belt legislation...the government telling us what to do because we couldn’t be trusted to do it ourselves.
You’re of the same vintage as me and will remember the fuss and objections to ‘clunk click every trip’. After a little while it became instinctive and now no one would get into a vehicle without immediately buckling up...yet in the last thirty years/500,000 miles of driving I cannot remember one occasion when I have actually benefited from wearing a seat belt.
I suspect we may have to adopt some sort of similar attitude to mask wearing, short term and in specific situations at least, because you just never know.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"this Government is actually frightened of now appearing to tell people what to do so anxious is it to claim the credit for ending the pandemic."

Only you, only you could conclude this!!

What evidence is there for the government claiming that the pandemic is over, let alone crowing about how they had done it?

Returning to the point of the end of free testing, I tend to agree that it should stop. Nit so much to save money but rather because there doesn't seem to be any point in testing any longer. If you prove positive, as I understand it, you are not required to self isolate or do anything different - you can go about your normal business with no mask, coughing and spitting on your fellow humans like a good 'un. So if there is no required behavioural difference between being positive or negative, what's actually the point testing? If you feel crap, then you need to respond accordingly with rest, painkillers, cough remedies etc, whether you have flu, covid or just a bad cold. it frankly doesn't matter which it is - so why do you need to know?

Covid testing was there so people would know when to take extra measures - if there are no extra measures required now, why test?

[ramAnag]

"this Government is actually frightened of now appearing to tell people what to do so anxious is it to claim the credit for ending the pandemic."

Only you, only you could conclude this!!

What evidence is there for the government claiming that the pandemic is over, let alone crowing about how they had done it?

Returning to the point of the end of free testing, I tend to agree that it should stop. Nit so much to save money but rather because there doesn't seem to be any point in testing any longer. If you prove positive, as I understand it, you are not required to self isolate or do anything different - you can go about your normal business with no mask, coughing and spitting on your fellow humans like a good 'un. So if there is no required behavioural difference between being positive or negative, what's actually the point testing? If you feel crap, then you need to respond accordingly with rest, painkillers, cough remedies etc, whether you have flu, covid or just a bad cold. it frankly doesn't matter which it is - so why do you need to know?

Covid testing was there so people would know when to take extra measures - if there are no extra measures required now, why test?

That’s nonsense, GP.

‘What evidence is there for the government claiming the pandemic is over’? Well how about the relaxation of virtually all social distancing rules. The end of free testing and no longer making mask wearing in indoor locations mandatory. They all send out signals from the rule makers that we can relax our guard and that Covid no longer takes the form of a pandemic.

As for ‘crowing about how they had done it’. Unless you’ve been living on planet Zog it would have been impossible to ignore the number of times the Government...usually in the form of Johnson, Javid or Raab have boasted about being the FIRST to introduce vaccines, or the ones to have MORE vaccines completed than anyone else in the EU, or the ones to have created the FASTEST post pandemic economic recovery etc etc.

It’s largely bollux of course but, as with most things uttered by the current crop of politicians from Johnson to Poo-tin, if you say it loud enough and for long enough people begin to believe.

[Trickytreesreds]

I do love how things have changed tack now, since the war sprung up.
I said 6 months ago, that the hysteria and panic was all out of proportion nd the figures were being manipulated,
Vaccinations was always the key, then we have to live with it. But that made me a conspiracy theorist and an unfeeling monster to the dangers of this terrible disaster.

Just before the Russian invasion, the usual mouth pieces were still crying for patience and care, with a lock down immediately.
Now we see it vanished out the news, labelled a flu inconvenience and not worth bothering about day to day.
Perhaps GP's will come out of hiding now and the BBC/DVLA employees hiding at home will go back to work?

[swaledale]

That’s nonsense, GP.

‘What evidence is there for the government claiming the pandemic is over’? Well how about the relaxation of virtually all social distancing rules. The end of free testing and no longer making mask wearing in indoor locations mandatory. They all send out signals from the rule makers that we can relax our guard and that Covid no longer takes the form of a pandemic.

As for ‘crowing about how they had done it’. Unless you’ve been living on planet Zog it would have been impossible to ignore the number of times the Government...usually in the form of Johnson, Javid or Raab have boasted about being the FIRST to introduce vaccines, or the ones to have MORE vaccines completed than anyone else in the EU, or the ones to have created the FASTEST post pandemic economic recovery etc etc.

It’s largely bollux of course but, as with most things uttered by the current crop of politicians from Johnson to Poo-tin, if you say it loud enough and for long enough people begin to believe.

I do think there is a balance to be struck here rA, more lockdowns would be counter productive, not sure that they were entirely required, given the fact that Sweden has survived it seems without one, BUT, we do now have cases exceeding £4 million and hospitalisations creeping up .

There has certainly been opaqueness about the figures on deaths, for a start many would ahve died of some othe respiratory disease, its what finishes off most people in old age, and others have died after testing positive with Covid. but not necesarily due to Covid. Nevertheless those scenes of people on ventilators dying are not just confined to pre vaccination times.

Dismissing it as nothing more than flu is a sign of the ill informed, its effect varies from person to person, but it can have debilitating effects on all ages.

What the Government haven't done is have a clear strategy for containing it, so the abolition of free testing, the abandonment of mask wearing and the message Covid has been beaten is not only misleading but very likely to to prove a mistake.

There is now evidence that immunity due to vaccination wears off within 9 months, so we are not out of the woods yet.

[ramAnag]

I do think there is a balance to be struck here rA, more lockdowns would be counter productive, not sure that they were entirely required, given the fact that Sweden has survived it seems without one, BUT, we do now have cases exceeding £4 million and hospitalisations creeping up .

There has certainly been opaqueness about the figures on deaths, for a start many would ahve died of some othe respiratory disease, its what finishes off most people in old age, and others have died after testing positive with Covid. but not necesarily due to Covid. Nevertheless those scenes of people on ventilators dying are not just confined to pre vaccination times.

Dismissing it as nothing more than flu is a sign of the ill informed, its effect varies from person to person, but it can have debilitating effects on all ages.

What the Government haven't done is have a clear strategy for containing it, so the abolition of free testing, the abandonment of mask wearing and the message Covid has been beaten is not only misleading but very likely to to prove a mistake.

There is now evidence that immunity due to vaccination wears off within 9 months, so we are not out of the woods yet.

I couldn’t agree more.
The thread though is entitled ‘The government’s handling of Covid’ and in certain quarters any criticism is immediately identified as just more Johnson/Tory bashing.
It isn’t, although God knows there’s been enough justification, but...specifically on topic, and in direct reference to your final two sentences...doesn’t the fact that we are no longer presented with any sort of clear and meaningful strategy mean that the current ‘handling of Covid’ simply isn’t very good?