Pitch invasions

[slack_pie]

Yeah good one SP, personal responsibility too, it goes without saying...But if there are problems to address, is that happening? That's what I'm asking.

Assaults by fans (physical or verbally, face-to face) on players at our National Sport's big games, televised across the nation and around the world, is a serious issue - as most seem to agree on this thread.
What are the causes? And what's the Govt doing, are legitimate questions to ask, especially of one that's been in power for 13 years and counting.

Apologies, I thought you were saying that 13 years of Tory rule had somehow resulted in this kind of behaviour being more prevalent. I agree that more should be done by those in power to stop the type of scenes we've been seeing the last few weeks and protect players on the pitch. Nobody should have to go to work and feel in danger of being assaulted.

[Old_pie]

Before my time, but I have a keen interest in 1960s football and I believe pitch invasions first became an issue when kids started running onto the pitch when their team scored a goal around 1961ish, TV commentator Ken Wolstenholme called it out as a stupid new trend, I think it was at Millwall of all places but probably TV had a lot to do with it, either with people seeing it as an opportunity to get themselves seen on television (a big deal in those days) or TV facilitating a copy cat phenomena. A bit of both probably.

Famously "There are some people on the pitch, they think it's all over - it is now"

My contribution to vandalism was to jump up then land hard on the wooden framed armchair and broke it when our 3rd went in. Mum was not well pleased.

[upthemaggies]

Famously "There are some people on the pitch, they think it's all over - it is now"

My contribution to vandalism was to jump up then land hard on the wooden framed armchair and broke it when our 3rd went in. Mum was not well pleased.

Ha.
Danny Baker tells a story about that particular goal, he didn't see it. His dad absolutely hated Wolstenholme and blamed him for tempting fate for West Germay's last minute equaliser, his dad was raging on and on and becoming scary to the point of reducing young Danny to tears and he ended up running out of the house to one of his mates houses to watch it there. By the time he got there, England had restored the lead.

He also mentions getting a colour TV new year 1970 and that he remembers it so well because, a day or two later his favourite programme was on. "Lost in Space", first time in colour and his parents had also bought a brand new cream coloured sofa which his dad must have bought with the Xmas work bonus. So there he is all happy on the brand new sofa, watching his favourite TV show, forgetting he'd got a black felt tip tucked into the back pocket of his trousers. About 2 hours later he's upstairs and he hears his mum scream at the top of her voice "DANNNNNY!!!!!!! GET DOWN ERE". You can imagine the scenes.

His description of being caught naked in bed with a next door neighbour by his mum when he was 15 is off the scale.

[for*sttown63]

Port Vale/Burslem is a breeding ground for incestuous two headed types; they should lose their place in the final should the allegations be true.

They are another form of life altogether.....was invited as a guest by one of their sponsors last game of the 1994/95 season when Gary Mills was attacked by two or three morons after the final whistle when the crowd spilled onto the pitch!

[Old_pie]

Ha.
Danny Baker tells a story about that particular goal, he didn't see it. His dad absolutely hated Wolstenholme and blamed him for tempting fate for West Germay's last minute equaliser, his dad was raging on and on and becoming scary to the point of reducing young Danny to tears and he ended up running out of the house to one of his mates houses to watch it there. By the time he got there, England had restored the lead.

He also mentions getting a colour TV new year 1970 ....

It was several years after '66 that I saw clips in colour and hadn't realised we'd played in red.

Brings to mind another famous quote:

Snooker commentator, the late Ted Lowe, uttered the immortal phrase, "and for those of you who are watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green" during one of his Pot Black commentaries.


I think I watched that too at the time.

[i961pie]

Play behind closed doors for the next 3 games or dock points. Can you imagine Forest fans not being able to see their team in the prem. at the start of the season? Could be playing Man Utd. or Liverpool etc.
Something drastic needs doing before someone gets a serious injury. Fines hit the club only and not the fans who are causing the problem.

[upthemaggies]

Play behind closed doors for the next 3 games or dock points. Can you imagine Forest fans not being able to see their team in the prem. at the start of the season? Could be playing Man Utd. or Liverpool etc.
Something drastic needs doing before someone gets a serious injury. Fines hit the club only and not the fans who are causing the problem.

That always sounds like an idea with potential until it effects your own club. Granted some might be willing to take the punishment to give it further traction but many won't and there's a good counter argument to be made against it being affective with tangible evidence to back it up.

Half listening to the radio whilst doing something else, I've heard the phrase "riot police" being suggested. Is there anybody old enough still allowed on the MSM to suggest bringing back national service I wonder. Always trotted without fail back in the 1980s.

I'm on the verge here of making a very irresponsible post because part of me wouldn't actually mind seeing the game return to the dark ages and I could ramble on about why I feel that way, but I'll try not to be goaded into it. I am in that sort of mood though, today.

In a nutshell, football cannot exist in isolation to what's going on outside. Yes times change and have changed, but when the generational sands of time are exhausted the whole apparatus is flipped on its' head and away we go again in reverse. There's no utopian final destination to be arrived at or pursued unless you're willing to accept the inevitable final scene with Charlton Heston falling to his knees at the ruin of the statue of liberty, metaphorically speaking. You're just as likely going to kill this game or destroy the planet trying to do "good".

[Elite_Pie]

Play behind closed doors for the next 3 games or dock points. Fines hit the club only and not the fans who are causing the problem.

And playing behind closed doors hits the fans who are not causing the problem.

Which is the vast majority of us.

[upthemaggies]

And playing behind closed doors hits the fans who are not causing the problem.

Which is the vast majority of us.

They have tried those types of punishments and it's basically a game of whack a mole. One club gets forced to play at neutral venues (Leeds), then another gets banned from Europe (Spurs) then the Welsh national team are banned from the next Euros, reduced to not being allowed to play in Cardiff and so on.
Manchester United were once forced to play a home game at Anfield! Around 8 years later, after god knows how many serious incidents, they have to play a home European tie in Plymouth having initially been thrown out. All of that climaxes with the blanket European ban during which time we have the worst disaster of all.

Points deductions were supposed to dissuade clubs getting themselves into a mess to the point of admin. The list of clubs that have now been docked points for that reason is insane. We've had clubs promoted and relegated as a result of matters off the pitch and not on it, Fword included. Adding points deductions for misbehaviour wouldn't stop it, in fact it might encourage it - rival fans posing as home fans.

[Big J]

I won't consider that cause then, and view protests (and the weak responses) as being another symptom of some deeper causes.

Obviously, these pitch invasions are not protests but 'celebrating' has not stopped some appalling treatment, including assault, of the professionals they've paid to watch. Yes it's a minority, but it's popping up all over the place so can't just be dismissed as isolated incidents.

As I said, it's a terrible reflection on us. We're into the 13th year of Tory government. Is there any sense that there can be a start in steering us in a better direction during this parliament?

What the hell has the Government got to do with it?