O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[GranthamPie]

i must admit I'm confused about why Starmer isn't up to the job and the conservatives are still an option ?
He is the leader of the party that pressured the Cons into giving us a Windfall Tax , he doesn't lie at the drop of a hat and has morals and integrity. To top it off he has been cleared of all false allegations on Curry Gate, so it seems the possible only negative about him is now cleared up.
can anyone please explain why they have no faith in him or labour ( i am aware he has said that Brexit will stay and they wont revisit this , a massive negative but we have that with the CONs anyway )?

He threw the last election which resulted in a landslide victory for the Tories. He backed a second referendum/ peoples vote just before the election with the clear knowledge that it went against party policy and would go down like a fart in a pub in the red wall areas. My personal view is, this was a coup by the Blairites and was probably orchestrated by Mandelson, Chinn, and Blair himself. He now states that the party will never push to rejoin the EU… you can imagine how that will go down in affluent, middle class, Pro remain areas.

He made 10 pledges in order to become the leader of the Labour Party… he’s broken and changed the wording on every single one. He says he will break them all to make Labour electable again… power at any cost, eh?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...emy-corbyn-spt

The party asked Martin Forde to investigate the party on claims of anti semitism and the handling of complaints of AS after the internal reports highlighted invention, collusion, racism and bullying by “certain members of staff”. This report has been delayed and delayed… in all likelihood because they don’t like what it says and are now busy whitewashing it.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...-leaked-report

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.

[the_anticlough]

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.

Me neither.
Of course Stramar would be an improvement on anyone the totally discredited tories can offer. But I will never vote for him.

He chose 'business as usual' for our politics. He inherited a mass movement of engaged young people, but rejected it in favour of re-concentrating power in a Westminster-centric world where parliamentarians trade policies with vested interests and lobbyists. No wealth or power structure will ever be questioned. The country needs radical change across the board - with different voices (our voices) being heard in a voting system based on PR. Starmar is just hoping FPTP can throw Labour a few years of power (for the PLP cabal only) before the tories take over yet again.

Labour can never win without Scotland anyway, so they better start thinking differently asap.
We'll have to accept a period of politics being totally disfunctional before we can move on to something better and more representative. But it's disfunctional anyway, so what is there to lose?

[GranthamPie]

Me neither.
Of course Stramar would be an improvement on anyone the totally discredited tories can offer. But I will never vote for him.

He chose 'business as usual' for our politics. He inherited a mass movement of engaged young people, but rejected it in favour of re-concentrating power in a Westminster-centric world where parliamentarians trade policies with vested interests and lobbyists. No wealth or power structure will ever be questioned. The country needs radical change across the board - with different voices (our voices) being heard in a voting system based on PR. Starmar is just hoping FPTP can throw Labour a few years of power (for the PLP cabal only) before the tories take over yet again.

Labour can never win without Scotland anyway, so they better start thinking differently asap.
We'll have to accept a period of politics being totally disfunctional before we can move on to something better and more representative. But it's disfunctional anyway, so what is there to lose?

Yup… in his desperation to win back red wall areas south of the border, Starmer has effectively handed Scotland to the pro EU SNP. Shame really because under Corbyn, there were signs that Labour were once again emerging as a serious alternative to the Nationalist in Scotland.

You’re absolutely right about engaged young people in the Labour movement… it’s not something I’ve witnessed in my lifetime and constitutes a missed opportunity of gargantuan proportions. Corbyn and the left also missed an opportunity to break away from the centrists and Blairites and form an alternative, left leaning party.

And here we are…. back with three main parties in Westmonster, were you couldn’t slide a fag paper between them.

Shame really

[Elite_Pie]

The country needs radical change across the board - with different voices (our voices) being heard in a voting system based on PR.

That's about where I'm at. I've never been a big fan of PR before because it all seemed a bit wishy-washy, but after the way this bunch have scandalously and callously abused a big majority I see it as the best way forward, in the short term at least.

As things stand, I can't support any party with conviction, so my vote will again go to the candidate most likely to keep the Tory out.

[the_anticlough]

That's about where I'm at. I've never been a big fan of PR before because it all seemed a bit wishy-washy, but after the way this bunch have scandalously and callously abused a big majority I see it as the best way forward, in the short term at least.

As things stand, I can't support any party with conviction, so my vote will again go to the candidate most likely to keep the Tory out.

You're either in favour of proportional representation or in favour of disproportional representation, there is no other category for that one.

Apart from being obviously fairer, it's the key to smashing our sterile and corrupt two-party system. Their combined vote would probably shrivel from 75% to 35% within a decade. That's why they'll resist it, but while they do they're denying democracy. The UK is just too diverse and complicated in 2022 to be stuffed into 2 archaic out-of-touch parties.

I was excited to see Andy Burnham come out in favour of PR. If he led Labour I could certainly vote for him, always someone aware of how timid his party has become and not afraid to break out of the groupthink and speak out.

[BigFatPie]

You're either in favour of proportional representation or in favour of disproportional representation, there is no other category for that one.

Apart from being obviously fairer, it's the key to smashing our sterile and corrupt two-party system. Their combined vote would probably shrivel from 75% to 35% within a decade. That's why they'll resist it, but while they do they're denying democracy. The UK is just too diverse and complicated in 2022 to be stuffed into 2 archaic out-of-touch parties.

I was excited to see Andy Burnham come out in favour of PR. If he led Labour I could certainly vote for him, always someone aware of how timid his party has become and not afraid to break out of the groupthink and speak out.

If you’re so keen on getting PR in, refusing to vote Labour seems a strange way of going about it.

[the_anticlough]

If you’re so keen on getting PR in, refusing to vote Labour seems a strange way of going about it.

Let me get this straight...if you want PR you should vote for a party that opposes it...?!

Tories and Labour will resist it for as long as they can (that's their own selfish interest)...

Hung parliaments would force a rethink. FPTP outcomes will likely become too embarrassing and so glaringly unfair to hold up to scrutiny.
The Greens could get 20% and 0 seats (I'll vote Green) - more actual votes than the SNP, who would get 50+ seats. The old parties would mop up the rest of the 500-600 seats on not much more than the Greens got. (This already happened to The Brexit Party but nobody cared about that, they were always going to deliver their voters straight to the tories).

People need to stop voting for Tories and Labour (while they remain so conservative and opposed to a fair voting system). Only then will this rotten political system of ours collapse and be replaced by something better - more representative, fairer, and open to different voices that will always be drowned out or never heard under FPTP.

[BigFatPie]

Let me get this straight...if you want PR you should vote for a party that opposes it...?!

Tories and Labour will resist it for as long as they can (that's their own selfish interest)...

Hung parliaments would force a rethink. FPTP outcomes will likely become too embarrassing and so glaringly unfair to hold up to scrutiny.
The Greens could get 20% and 0 seats (I'll vote Green) - more actual votes than the SNP, who would get 50+ seats. The old parties would mop up the rest of the 500-600 seats on not much more than the Greens got. (This already happened to The Brexit Party but nobody cared about that, they were always going to deliver their voters straight to the tories).

People need to stop voting for Tories and Labour (while they remain so conservative and opposed to a fair voting system). Only then will this rotten political system of ours collapse and be replaced by something better - more representative, fairer, and open to different voices that will always be drowned out or never heard under FPTP.

Of course Labour are saying they don’t want PR, as a potential party of government they still have to pretend they can win a majority under FPTP. The chances of that though are minimal, as it stands with the colossal defeat in 2019 the best as progressives we can probably hope for is Labour as the biggest party. PR or some other form of electoral reform will naturally flow from that result.

Hoping people will stop voting for Tories or Labour and thinking some other nirvana will establish itself is pie in the sky imo. You have to deal with life as it is rather than how you wish it to be. There’s a reason why the English have never had a proper revolution.

[the_anticlough]

If you’re so keen on getting PR in, refusing to vote Labour seems a strange way of going about it.

Just this minute read this (last but 1 paragraph most important).

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tury-democracy

And then this

https://labourlist.org/2021/07/exclu...epresentation/

[hissingdwarf]

This. Any progress made in the Labour Party has been thrown under the bus totally by Starmer etc...

He threw the last election which resulted in a landslide victory for the Tories. He backed a second referendum/ peoples vote just before the election with the clear knowledge that it went against party policy and would go down like a fart in a pub in the red wall areas. My personal view is, this was a coup by the Blairites and was probably orchestrated by Mandelson, Chinn, and Blair himself. He now states that the party will never push to rejoin the EU… you can imagine how that will go down in affluent, middle class, Pro remain areas.

He made 10 pledges in order to become the leader of the Labour Party… he’s broken and changed the wording on every single one. He says he will break them all to make Labour electable again… power at any cost, eh?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...emy-corbyn-spt

The party asked Martin Forde to investigate the party on claims of anti semitism and the handling of complaints of AS after the internal reports highlighted invention, collusion, racism and bullying by “certain members of staff”. This report has been delayed and delayed… in all likelihood because they don’t like what it says and are now busy whitewashing it.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...-leaked-report

You want to vote for the Poundshop Tories… be my guest. I wont.