The Wokeness Thread

[Geoff Parkstone]

The great irony of all these woke targets (to use a probably wrong phrase) is that by recognising the rights of (a) you often have to take away the rights of another group (b). Example: Recognition of trans MtoF rights to assert their chosen gender often creates a problem for women - in terms of their non acceptance of the new members of their gender in refuges, sports or simply toilets in clubs.

It sort of sems to me that hetero***ual women are the group most negatively impacted by woke culture. eg a woman finally escapes from abusive relationship with man, gets place in refuge only to find she is sharing that refuge by someone who is (at least birth biologically) in her eyes male. That cannot be good

[swaledale]

The great irony of all these woke targets (to use a probably wrong phrase) is that by recognising the rights of (a) you often have to take away the rights of another group (b). Example: Recognition of trans MtoF rights to assert their chosen gender often creates a problem for women - in terms of their non acceptance of the new members of their gender in refuges, sports or simply toilets in clubs.

It sort of sems to me that hetero***ual women are the group most negatively impacted by woke culture. eg a woman finally escapes from abusive relationship with man, gets place in refuge only to find she is sharing that refuge by someone who is (at least birth biologically) in her eyes male. That cannot be good

Right lets just step back and think about this a minute.

Yes "woke" targets is the wrong phrase - not every person who campaigns for change is doing it because they are "woke", it might be convenient for a Tory party weak on actual government to lump these things together as woke lefty ideology, but for an person capable of sentient thought its clear that this is complicated and that pretending that the reality does not exist is not a way of managing it.

Transgender is a specific issue thats a hot topic right now and its a complicated subject, it needs proper adult debate and consideration of what is required to accommodate those who are genuinely suffering from gender issues.

Its not "woke" culture that is threatening heters exual women. There isno such thing as woke culture for a start, its an aggressive pressure group not being challenged enough by those in authority, that happens a lot in many areas of human activity.

Its wrong to think that because weight is given to a section of the population that this means you take away the rights of another group - yes there may have to be compromise, after all if there are for example 100 places each year for Cambridge university and previously these all went to public school educated students. Widening the admission to include those from state school is inevitably going to mean that less public school students will get in.

The same can equally be said about non "woke" pressure - as in the banning of abortion - impacts negatively on women, the refusal to control guns, impacts negatively on all those who ahve been killed by guns.

The reality is that any change in law, or behaviour or rules etc. can have an impact, that can be negative and it can be pushed on society by single interest pressure groups from across the political spectrum. That has nothing to do with being woke, which on the whole is about fairness, justice and avoiding discrimination wherever possible.

[ramAnag]

Right lets just step back and think about this a minute.

Yes "woke" targets is the wrong phrase - not every person who campaigns for change is doing it because they are "woke", it might be convenient for a Tory party weak on actual government to lump these things together as woke lefty ideology, but for an person capable of sentient thought its clear that this is complicated and that pretending that the reality does not exist is not a way of managing it.

Transgender is a specific issue thats a hot topic right now and its a complicated subject, it needs proper adult debate and consideration of what is required to accommodate those who are genuinely suffering from gender issues.

Its not "woke" culture that is threatening heters exual women. There isno such thing as woke culture for a start, its an aggressive pressure group not being challenged enough by those in authority, that happens a lot in many areas of human activity.

Its wrong to think that because weight is given to a section of the population that this means you take away the rights of another group - yes there may have to be compromise, after all if there are for example 100 places each year for Cambridge university and previously these all went to public school educated students. Widening the admission to include those from state school is inevitably going to mean that less public school students will get in.

The same can equally be said about non "woke" pressure - as in the banning of abortion - impacts negatively on women, the refusal to control guns, impacts negatively on all those who ahve been killed by guns.

The reality is that any change in law, or behaviour or rules etc. can have an impact, that can be negative and it can be pushed on society by single interest pressure groups from across the political spectrum. That has nothing to do with being woke, which on the whole is about fairness, justice and avoiding discrimination wherever possible.

Agree with all that.

Thanks for the ‘action’, AF. It’s all yours.

[Andy_Faber]

Agree with all that.

Thanks for the ‘action’, AF. It’s all yours.

Apologies for the initial balls up, nothing personal