O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[Old_pie]

I did too and I quite liked his speech. I didn’t find anything in it to disagree with.

Interesting that you thought the audience wasn’t genuinely receptive, given that his popularity ratings are rather high. Then again, I’m sure you probably believe the western media propaganda that Putin is an authoritarian dictator that rules with an iron fist. The fact is that among Russian political circles he’s actually quite a moderate.

How do you seeing it resolving Andy?

How's the band?

[andy6025]

How do you seeing it resolving Andy?

How's the band?

It’s hard to see a way out of this. Russia sees Nato expansionism into Ukraine as existential threat (which I agree with), so they’re not going to back down. They will do whatever it takes to achieve their objectives. And the Russian people will be right peeved if they don’t take Odessa as well.

On the other hand, the Americans don’t at all want to back down either, despite Ukraine not being of any significant geopolitical strategic importance to them. They’ll definitely be up to more nefarious acts (like blowing up the Nordstream pipelines) to escalate this conflict. Fortunately it seems that Europe is almost run out of any significant support they can give Kiev, not only because European economies are quickly going down the toilet, but also because they just don’t have much more hardware they can provide.

We’ll see if Russia’s troop surge works in Ukraine, just as America’s worked in in Iraq. I don’t see Moscow using nuclear weapons - they has a no first use policy. And I think the media tends to misrepresent Putin’s so called nuclear threats. If you read the text of his speech he said that (paraphrasing), ‘those who dream of using nuclear weapons against us, we have such weapons too and it can blow right back at you.’ This was directed at many western and Ukrainian politicians that have threatened the use of nuclear weapons against Russia, including Zalensky who, a few weeks ago, called for NATO to conduct a preemptive strike against Russia - which our media has ignored.

While I’m hesitant to make predictions I think ultimately America will back down as they have far less interest in Ukraine than Russia does. But it is extremely profitable. It’ll be a while before we get there, but eventually all things come to an end.

Edit: I’m with a new band now... just gearing up to do our first gigs shortly.

Edit 2: In contrast to Russia having a ‘no first use’ policy on nuclear weapons, America used to as well, but removed it in April - which also hasn’t been reported much by our media.

[Old_pie]

It’s hard to see a way out of this. Russia sees Nato expansionism into Ukraine as existential threat (which I agree with), so they’re not going to back down. They will do whatever it takes to achieve their objectives. And the Russian people will be right peeved if they don’t take Odessa as well.

How do you reconcile Nato expansionism into Ukraine with the block on countries joining Nato where there is internal conflict? Surely if Nato had really wanted unlimited expansion then they'd welcome Ukraine with open arms and put some serious troops up against the (real) Russian borders after clearing up the junk and low life on the way.

And of course Putin's actions have encouraged the previously neutral Finland and Sweden to apply for membership, a bit of an own goal there wouldn't you say?

I'm quite surprised you are in Canada and not Cuba. Is it too hot there? Or have you sent an invite to Putin to claim territories as Russian?

Edit: I’m with a new band now... just gearing up to do our first gigs shortly.

Any gigs booked for Moscow? Or in the "new Russian territories"?

[magpie_mania]

Reuters:

Russia's official military deployment principles allow for the use of nuclear weapons if they - or other types of weapons of mass destruction - are used against it, or if the Russian state faces an existential threat from conventional weapons.

So, how would they interpret it if Ukraine refuse to recognise the annexation recently, and took any military action? Would that be an existential threat?

[Old_pie]

Reuters:

Russia's official military deployment principles allow for the use of nuclear weapons if they - or other types of weapons of mass destruction - are used against it, or if the Russian state faces an existential threat from conventional weapons.

So, how would they interpret it if Ukraine refuse to recognise the annexation recently, and took any military action? Would that be an existential threat?

Some analysts suggested that was the reason for the annexation. Ukraine tries to re-take/defend its own borders and Putin can get even dirtier.

[Robertomac]

I did too and I quite liked his speech. I didn’t find anything in it to disagree with.

Interesting that you thought the audience wasn’t genuinely receptive, given that his popularity ratings are rather high. Then again, I’m sure you probably believe the western media propaganda that Putin is an authoritarian dictator that rules with an iron fist. The fact is that among Russian political circles he’s actually quite a moderate.

High ratings? Don't make me laugh! It's pure propaganda to control the population through fear. Who is ever going to say they disapprove of a leader who will throw you in prison for voicing an opinion? If Putin is not an authoritarian, why is there no free press in Russia? Why is there no credible opposition to his rule? Why has he needed to change the constitution repeatedly to enable him to stay in power? Popular leaders don't need to take such measures, nor do they need to rig elections to try and create a veneer of democracy to lend legitimacy to their rule.

Putin and his cronies have robbed Russia of its wealth, behaving like gangsters. Putin is probably the richest man on the planet for all his plunder.

Are your posts genuine? Or have I completely missed the irony? I don't swallow down all the narrative given to us by our own media, and I fully accept the Western governments are not the innocents they would like us to think they are, but you seriously cannot believe a man like Putin has a just cause?

[JoePass]

Congratulations to the people of Russia, and especially those of Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson on their referendums and today’s ceremonies to celebrate the occasion. May you know peace from the Ukrainian fascists soon!

...and as for the pipelines, it was obviously the Americans. The only question is who else knew - the Danes? The Poles? Liz “I’ll do it, I’ll do it, I can’t wait to push the button” Truss? But it’s fun to watch the western media try to blame it on Russia. Lol.

Good luck, Europe, you’re well and truly flucked this winter. Thank your good friends in the USA!

Hello Mr Corbyn, I hope you are happy now and having a nice celebration drink with Corbyn, Diane Abbott. Elite Pie. Sidn and Big FatPie, you so deserve each other.

[Magpies1959]

I must say I am at a loss to know why andy6025 does not live in Russia instead of Canada, having said that Trudeau is not exactly one for people's freedoms.

[JoePass]

I must say I am at a loss to know why andy6025 does not live in Russia instead of Canada, having said that Trudeau is not exactly one for people's freedoms.

Andy needs psychiatric help, he has been kidnapped by Labour.

[Jampie]

Andy needs psychiatric help, he has been kidnapped by Labour.

More likely he's been consuming too much Russian propaganda, which you're at least as likely to get from far right sources in the Americas.