O/T:- Ukraine [Incorporating 'Congrats to Russia' thread]

[drillerpie]

For anyone who is interested, here is some more tragicomic Russian state TV.

So far I think the Jewish presidentof Ukraine, Joe Biden, the state of Israel, the EU, and Sanna Marin have all been identified as Nazis.

https://youtu.be/Oh2nnejPN7g

Meanwhile in Russia, at the recent annexation party in Moscow there was a guest appearance by a priest, who called for holy war against the west while cosplaying Himmler. Just saying.

https://youtu.be/US1QegWt4wc

This is the final stage of a deliberate and long-term strategy in domestic Russian propaganda to equate anything and anyone who doesn't let Russia do what it wants to Nazis.

This message has been strongly reinforced by state TV and even the school curriculum for years now. It's the perfect way to build support for a war - train the nation to hate Nazis, tell them where the Nazis are, invade.

It also stops people asking questions about simarities between the behaviour of the Russian federation and...you know what.

This is all meant for the domestic audience, but the fact that some people outside of Russia fall for it is probably seen as a bonus.

[Old_pie]

For anyone who is interested, here is some more tragicomic Russian state TV.

So far I think the Jewish presidentof Ukraine, Joe Biden, the state of Israel, the EU, and Sanna Marin have all been identified as Nazis.

https://youtu.be/Oh2nnejPN7g

Meanwhile in Russia, at the recent annexation party in Moscow there was a guest appearance by a priest, who called for holy war against the west while cosplaying Himmler. Just saying.

https://youtu.be/US1QegWt4wc

This is the final stage of a deliberate and long-term strategy in domestic Russian propaganda to equate anything and anyone who doesn't let Russia do what it wants to Nazis.

This message has been strongly reinforced by state TV and even the school curriculum for years now. It's the perfect way to build support for a war - train the nation to hate Nazis, tell them where the Nazis are, invade.

It also stops people asking questions about simarities between the behaviour of the Russian federation and...you know what.

This is all meant for the domestic audience, but the fact that some people outside of Russia fall for it is probably seen as a bonus.

Well those that do ask questions, even powerful businessmen, seem to fall out of windows or get shot before they get that far. Some seem to forget that doesn't happen in other places where critical comment can be made from the security of their NATO protected and democratic country.

No doubt there are those who view Stalin as a saviour, regret the knocking down of the Berlin wall and wish to see the re-establishment of the Soviet Union and tanks rolling into Hungary, Czeckoslakia etc. They could even reach Finland, Sweden and if global warming is reversed, Canada. хорошее здоровье comrades. It's a good job Notts are black and white. Imagine the confusion being the other lot

[BigFatPie]

I can see what the far right see in Putin, a murderous ‘strongman’ who doesn’t have to kowtow to do gooder liberals or bother with free elections to get his own way. What I’m not so clear about is why elements of the left/far left sympathise with and tolerate him. I If your world view is as simple as America bad, America’s enemies good the I’m not sure your opinion is worth that much.

[i961pie]

For anyone who is interested, here is some more tragicomic Russian state TV.

So far I think the Jewish presidentof Ukraine, Joe Biden, the state of Israel, the EU, and Sanna Marin have all been identified as Nazis.

https://youtu.be/Oh2nnejPN7g

Meanwhile in Russia, at the recent annexation party in Moscow there was a guest appearance by a priest, who called for holy war against the west while cosplaying Himmler. Just saying.

https://youtu.be/US1QegWt4wc

This is the final stage of a deliberate and long-term strategy in domestic Russian propaganda to equate anything and anyone who doesn't let Russia do what it wants to Nazis.

This message has been strongly reinforced by state TV and even the school curriculum for years now. It's the perfect way to build support for a war - train the nation to hate Nazis, tell them where the Nazis are, invade.

It also stops people asking questions about simarities between the behaviour of the Russian federation and...you know what.

This is all meant for the domestic audience, but the fact that some people outside of Russia fall for it is probably seen as a bonus.

A certain Canadian chap falls into your last sentence.

[andy6025]

Driller. I do indeed think that people ought to hate Nazis. Anyone that thinks otherwise should give their head a shake.

Cool links though. There are some more though that you might have overlooked:

Here’s Zalensky standing in a cathedral and channeling Darth Vader to tell us that the Lorde and heavenly light is on his side in fighting the hordes of evil, and that Christ has risen for him, for God lives in Kiev. It’s some pretty well manicured propaganda. Do you think the CIA helped him with it?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...ature=emb_logo

And as for Ukraine’s very serious Nazi problem, you don’t have to take Putin’s word for it, here’s a whole slew of western sources saying the same thing.

USA Today tells us that Ukraine’s militias are founded and manned by white supremacist nazis:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...002/?gnt-cfr=1

Or the Jerusalem Post reporting on a George Washington University study that the US, UK, Germany, France, Canada and Poland are arming and training Nazis both in Ukraine as well as abroad:

https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/western...ort-682411/amp

Or the Time of Israeli denouncing the annual Ukrainian marches in support of Ukrainian Nazi collaborator Stephen Bandera. Notice in the article they quote Ukrainian Pravda as writing: “Nationalism is our religion and Bandera is our prophet”:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundre...-collaborator/

Or how The Nation reports that neo-nazis are on the march in Ukraine:

https://www.thenation.com/article/po...right-ukraine/

Or the West Point Institute for Counter Terrorism showing that Ukraine has become a focal point and destination for far right Nazis from America and all over Europe:

https://ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uplo...NEL-042020.pdf

Or here’s the OSCE writing about Ukrainian war crimes against the civilian populations in the Donbas by the Ukrainian military and Ukrainian Nazi groups like Right Sector. Here’s a gruesome part of the report on the treatment of prisoners:

*The prisoners were electrocuted, beaten cruelly and for multiple days in a row with different objects (iron bars, baseball bats, sticks, rifle butts, bayonet knives, rubber batons).
Techniques widely used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces include waterboarding, strangling with a ‘Banderist garrotte’ and other types of strangling.
In some cases prisoners, for the purposes of intimidation, were sent to minefields and run over with military vehicles, which led to their death.
Other torture methods used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces include bone-crashing, stabbing and cutting with a knife, branding with red-hot objects, shooting different body parts with small arms.
The prisoners taken captive by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces are kept for days at freezing temperatures, with no access to food or medical assistance, and are often forced to take psychotropic substances that cause agony.
An absolute majority of prisoners are put through mock firing squads and suffer death and rape threats to their families.
Many of those tortured are not members of the self-defense forces of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR).*

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf

Or another report from the OSCE in which they point to marches and violent “progroms” by ultra right Nazis, sometimes in coordination with Ukrainian police!

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/6/0/394781.pdf

Here’s The Guardian telling us about the role of ultra right Ukrainian Nazis in overthrowing the democratically elected government and their power post-coup:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...-a-photo-essay

And here’s two investigative reports on BBC Newsnight about Nazi militias in Ukraine, destroying Russian owned shops, intimidating officials, controlling the streets and doing all kinds of other awful things:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s&t=2s

As the fictitious character Indians Jones once rightfully said, “I hate Nazis!”

[andy6025]

We are allowed to listen to what Putin and the Russians have to say and what the West has to say. We can see on tv what is happening to towns and cities and people in Ukraine.
Why aren't the Russian people allowed to do the same? Then they can make their own mind up if Putin is to be trusted or it's the evil West to blame.
You are always suspicious when any free speech or view is dealt with by being arrested and locked up.
There are Russian speaking people in Latvia, Estonia etc. Will that be a reason for Putin to ''liberate'' them too?

Actually to a large degree you’re not supposed to be allowed to hear what Putin has to say or to anything other than the western narrative, and you are technically dissuaded from doing so.

The EU has banned Russian state media from broadcasting in Europe:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...ace-bans-media

Here in Canada, Russian state media has also been banned:

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/pol...22213.amp.html

Private companies are also executing bans, for example, Russian media articles will never be featured in any news search queries on Google - they actively banned them:

https://www.reuters.com/technology/e...es-2022-03-01/

News broadcasters also rarely, if never, feature ‘experts’ and other guests that present the Russian point of view. The only host I know that openly questions the western narrative is the dingbat Tucker Carlson. As for expert guests, the only one I know is that 2 days ago the economist Jeffrey Sachs was on Bloomberg News and he said that not only does he believe that America blew up the Nordstream pipelines, but that many western reporters privately contact him to till him they all agree, but that it’s not allowed to be discussed:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o5m8m9RNxjw

Reddit has ‘quarantined’ its pro-Russian subReddit r/russia.

And as for it even being illegal to report on the Russian point of view, the British government have actually sanctioned a British blogger/reporter, Graham Philips, who lives and works in Donbas. He does regular news reports talking to people in the street and helps delivers humanitarian aid to them. This is the first ever instance I know of where the British government has sanctioned one of its own citizens.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...sanctions-list

You can see his reports on his YouTube channel here, which of course along with many other YouTube’s who present the Russian point of views - their channels have been demonetized (ie., he’s not allowed any revenue from it by YouTube due to his ‘pro-Russian’ stance):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_tA78U7KbJQ

[andy6025]

For their part, Ukraine’s Zalensky regime has banned any opposition political parties suspected of Russian sympathies, including the state parliament’s largest opposition party.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...inks-to-russia

And long before the Russian invasion, Ukraine has been banning media and social media believed to be pro-Russian. See this ‘reporters without borders’ report:

https://rsf.org/en/rsf-urges-ukraine...al-media-sites

[ThaiPie]

Thai Pie,

If we continue to swallow this western narrative that we’ve done nothing wrong at all and that it’s all the fault of the ‘evil murderous Putin and his psychopathic regime in Russia’, then we put all of the onus on Putin to change course in order for the conflict to deescalate. After all, if we’ve done nothing wrong then what could we possibly do? When faced with a raving psychopathic lunatic then the only thing you can hope to do is force them into submission. That would seem the only reasonable thing to do.

But what if we’re wrong? What if Putin and/or Russia’s side of the story, and the people of the Russian speaking regions of Ukraine actually have a legitimate point? What if they have a lot of legitimate points? What if it turns out that they’re not responsible for the conflict at all, but are rather reacting rationally against psychopathic leaders in Kiev, Washington and London? For them, the onus would be on us to change. Or should they just roll over and allow murderous psychopaths to continue to kill and threaten their people? Just like in the paragraph above, that doesn’t seem rational. Newsflash: this is exactly the Russian point of view, and Putin, like any other Russian leader that’s sober, would see it in exactly the same way.

So now you have two opposing peoples, each thinking that the other is a psychopath. How do we get out?

More "what ifs" than Ruben nutmegs.

[andy6025]

More "what ifs" than Ruben nutmegs.

If you look closely it’s actually the same “what if”.

But the question remains. How do you get out of it?

[Jampie]

So now you have two opposing peoples, each thinking that the other is a psychopath. How do we get out?

Russia loses, that's how. And they're steadily losing now. Maybe they can turn it around in a few months if they can somehow train and equip enough new conscripts, but I doubt it.

As for the morality of it all, this is the most unambiguous such event in modern history. Russia is 100% in the wrong and Ukraine 100% in the right. It's a straight up fight between good and evil such as has not been seen since world war two.