Quote Originally Posted by andy6025 View Post
Driller. I do indeed think that people ought to hate Nazis. Anyone that thinks otherwise should give their head a shake.

Cool links though. There are some more though that you might have overlooked:

Here’s Zalensky standing in a cathedral and channeling Darth Vader to tell us that the Lorde and heavenly light is on his side in fighting the hordes of evil, and that Christ has risen for him, for God lives in Kiev. It’s some pretty well manicured propaganda. Do you think the CIA helped him with it?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...ature=emb_logo

And as for Ukraine’s very serious Nazi problem, you don’t have to take Putin’s word for it, here’s a whole slew of western sources saying the same thing.

USA Today tells us that Ukraine’s militias are founded and manned by white supremacist nazis:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...002/?gnt-cfr=1

Or the Jerusalem Post reporting on a George Washington University study that the US, UK, Germany, France, Canada and Poland are arming and training Nazis both in Ukraine as well as abroad:

https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/western...ort-682411/amp

Or the Time of Israeli denouncing the annual Ukrainian marches in support of Ukrainian Nazi collaborator Stephen Bandera. Notice in the article they quote Ukrainian Pravda as writing: “Nationalism is our religion and Bandera is our prophet”:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundre...-collaborator/

Or how The Nation reports that neo-nazis are on the march in Ukraine:

https://www.thenation.com/article/po...right-ukraine/

Or the West Point Institute for Counter Terrorism showing that Ukraine has become a focal point and destination for far right Nazis from America and all over Europe:

https://ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uplo...NEL-042020.pdf

Or here’s the OSCE writing about Ukrainian war crimes against the civilian populations in the Donbas by the Ukrainian military and Ukrainian Nazi groups like Right Sector. Here’s a gruesome part of the report on the treatment of prisoners:

*The prisoners were electrocuted, beaten cruelly and for multiple days in a row with different objects (iron bars, baseball bats, sticks, rifle butts, bayonet knives, rubber batons).
Techniques widely used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces include waterboarding, strangling with a ‘Banderist garrotte’ and other types of strangling.
In some cases prisoners, for the purposes of intimidation, were sent to minefields and run over with military vehicles, which led to their death.
Other torture methods used by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces include bone-crashing, stabbing and cutting with a knife, branding with red-hot objects, shooting different body parts with small arms.
The prisoners taken captive by the Ukrainian armed forces and security forces are kept for days at freezing temperatures, with no access to food or medical assistance, and are often forced to take psychotropic substances that cause agony.
An absolute majority of prisoners are put through mock firing squads and suffer death and rape threats to their families.
Many of those tortured are not members of the self-defense forces of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics (DPR and LPR).*

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf

Or another report from the OSCE in which they point to marches and violent “progroms” by ultra right Nazis, sometimes in coordination with Ukrainian police!

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/6/0/394781.pdf

Here’s The Guardian telling us about the role of ultra right Ukrainian Nazis in overthrowing the democratically elected government and their power post-coup:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...-a-photo-essay

And here’s two investigative reports on BBC Newsnight about Nazi militias in Ukraine, destroying Russian owned shops, intimidating officials, controlling the streets and doing all kinds of other awful things:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s&t=2s

As the fictitious character Indians Jones once rightfully said, “I hate Nazis!”
Morning Andy. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't want to get into this with you, because we did it all before in 2014 and personally I didn't think it was a very satisfying or enlightening exchange.

The early signs here are that this time would be no different. Some of the things you say could be interesting to talk about, but other things you say, like comparing the US troop surge in Iraq to the upcoming Russian mobilisation, make me realise it's just not worth it.

Conparing the most technologically advanced and highly trained military the world has ever seen, to depositing 300k untrained, ill-disciplined, unmotivated vodka sponges and violent criminals in the middle of a war zone, without even basic equipment, is just silly.

I am taking that as a sign you are unreachable on this topic.

I also know that it would be very time consuming, and you are prepared to put a lot of time into writing your point of view and passing on links to read. I'm not being facetious - I actually am interested in all of this, I'm busy at work and simply don't have time.

I know that you are enthusiastic about political science, so I would just ask that as a good political scientist you don't present facts outside of historical context, and to use a biblical metaphor, you don't pass judgement on the speck of dust in other countries' eyes while ignoring the planks of wood in Russia's eyes. I would also hope you start using the critical thinking you ask others to use, and wrongly presume they haven't.

Here's hoping Russia sees sense very soon and puts and end to this absurd invasion.