McClean whinging again.

[John2]

John,
Would you say that in the universities kids are left to do the work themselves? When I look at what has happened with my 2 kids who both attended university if they didn't work hard then they didn't achieve. The professors gave them the topics and the guidance they needed to put together their course work but there was little help after that.
It therefore came down to the intelligence and determination of the student.

I can only speak for my own experience but I certainly wasn't taught "what" to think. Academics generally like to be intellectually challenged, the quality of the argument given is what decides the score, not whether they personally agree with it or not.

I also couldn't tell you the political leanings of anybody who taught me at University, I wouldn't even like to guess.

I'm in agreement with vaterland_miller, not at university level but at a school level. It's been going on for years in the UK that the main objective has been to pass exams by following the course work. There is very little time to debate for the kids, few sports clubs and fewer youth clubs for kids to develop into adults. They know that only by following the teachers and what they say is the only way to get the passes needed to advance. Is this educating kids to pass exams.

I agree 100% that kids at school are taught how to pass exams and I think it's a very poor way to best prepare them for life. My teacher friends agree too.

Universities and schools are completely different in how they teach.

I wasn't really comparing those issues in schools with the comments about universities, it was more to illustrate my surprise when people express strong opinions on subject matters I'm unsure how they could have experienced.

[frogmiller]

I can only speak for my own experience but I certainly wasn't taught "what" to think. Academics generally like to be intellectually challenged, the quality of the argument given is what decides the score, not whether they personally agree with it or not.

I also couldn't tell you the political leanings of anybody who taught me at University, I wouldn't even like to guess.



I agree 100% that kids at school are taught how to pass exams and I think it's a very poor way to best prepare them for life. My teacher friends agree too.

Universities and schools are completely different in how they teach.

I wasn't really comparing those issues in schools with the comments about universities, it was more to illustrate my surprise when people express strong opinions on subject matters I'm unsure how they could have experienced.

Thanks

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Thanks

But the john2 yawnfest continues

( there will now be a short delay whilst he finds something to cut and paste)

[John2]

But the john2 yawnfest continues

This thought-provoking retort that you've definitely not used about 50 times before (because you're not desperate to try and convince me you don't care what I think) is keeping everyone well-stimulated.

Bravo on such an excellent contribution.

[ragingpup]

Its always a good sign when one's opponent in a debate starts talking about "conspiracy theories" because it demonstrates that they are unaware that all aspects of government and corporate policy in all countries get decided in private rooms amongst small groups of people with their agendas. There is no conspiracy but there is a nett effect of ignorant people who subscribe to destructive, extremist social science dogma that they have been exposed to at university (e.g. Critical Race Theory) from academics who want to sow social discord and thereby, in some magical way, move towards their idea of social utopia.

Democratic - how do we vote against this wokery if even the Conservative Party introduce identity politics legislation (e.g. the 2010 Act I cited along with links describing some of its results)? My science and technology professional journals are full of the woke nonsense and whilst I am not compelled to read it I do have to pay for it.

There was a time when the Inquisition decided what could be stated and what could not. The end of the Inquisition was followed by the "Age of Enlightenment" from which we have science and technology and the enormous benefits brought by that over the last 300 years, unique in world history. Why would we want to change our culture by re-imposing new constraints on freedom of thought?

If people want to pretend to be nice by perching on one knee, by all means they should do that but then they should not expect the people who boo their gesture to run the risk of prosecution and all that follows from that.

As an ardent Monarchist I would support Maclean's right to protest peacefully for whatever he believes in, however offensive that may be to some people. Superficially he looks like the kind of chap I wouldn't want as a son-in-law but perhaps he is a delightful person. I can't say that I care one way or the other.

I don't think that many of us are not aware that there are many vested interests staked in political groups and that much business filters into government policy that more closely represents external bodies rather than the electorate. It would be naive to think otherwise.

But to think that political leaders of any hue would shut the door on big corporations jostling for their financial interests to be moved forward by governments and instead welcome in groups of Marxists lecturers pushing for greater representation of one armed bi***uals in HE in order to serupticiously instigate a Marxist world agenda is as laughable as it sounds.

Let's face it, politicians have to formulate manifestos that quite clearly set out their agendas for social change, and often frame this in vote winning terminology (Big Society etc) with quite clear offers of what legislation they will introduce if they were elected. Thus the voting public make their choice and vote them in. I'm surethat you will find your own views reflected in some political parties out there - Reclaim UK? They make their views quite clearly and don't they reflect your own? They are out there and pushing their agenda - why aren't people voting for them? I'd hazard a guess that the majority of the public don't feel that their anti-woke single issue political stance is reflecting the world they see around them, or the direction that they want their world to go in. Why is that so hard to understand?

[vaterland_miller]

I don't think that many of us are not aware that there are many vested interests staked in political groups and that much business filters into government policy that more closely represents external bodies rather than the electorate. It would be naive to think otherwise.

But to think that political leaders of any hue would shut the door on big corporations jostling for their financial interests to be moved forward by governments and instead welcome in groups of Marxists lecturers pushing for greater representation of one armed bi***uals in HE in order to serupticiously instigate a Marxist world agenda is as laughable as it sounds.

Let's face it, politicians have to formulate manifestos that quite clearly set out their agendas for social change, and often frame this in vote winning terminology (Big Society etc) with quite clear offers of what legislation they will introduce if they were elected. Thus the voting public make their choice and vote them in. I'm surethat you will find your own views reflected in some political parties out there - Reclaim UK? They make their views quite clearly and don't they reflect your own? They are out there and pushing their agenda - why aren't people voting for them? I'd hazard a guess that the majority of the public don't feel that their anti-woke single issue political stance is reflecting the world they see around them, or the direction that they want their world to go in. Why is that so hard to understand?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOSTrb73vic

[John2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOSTrb73vic

Welp, this confirms what I alluded to before... you're stuck in the YouTube algorithm and being spoonfed opinions.

This guy is even wearing a dog collar. He's worried about the same thing as your other guy, the loss of traditional Christian values.

That's not a serious political discussion, its just resistance to the world moving on from washed-up old ideology.

Are you a Christian vaterland?

[vaterland_miller]

Welp, this confirms what I alluded to before... you're stuck in the YouTube algorithm and being spoonfed opinions.

This guy is even wearing a dog collar. He's worried about the same thing as your other guy, the loss of traditional Christian values.

That's not a serious political discussion, its just resistance to the world moving on from washed-up old ideology.

Are you a Christian vaterland?

You probably watch and listen to the BBC's drivel (paid for by extortion). Sadly John you and your friend, ragingpup, give me the creeps. You never answer any specific criticisms of your sinister, horrible and clearly dangerous Wokery religion (e.g. the RAF recruitment madness).

What on earth is wrong with Christians? In the last century they have done far less harm than your nasty destructive Marxist friends. "Critical Race Theory" like the other "Critical Theories" is an idiotic dogma without any foundation in fact and it is being forcibly imposed on our helpless children against the will and even without the knowledge of their parents by very ignorant and irresponsible adults in an atmosphere of fear. It is being enabled by extreme left-wing policies in the establishment and I am sorry to say in central government.

Whatever you think about Christianity (which is not without its own loonies e.g., creationists), at least it gave us glorious culture - music, art and architecture. All we have ever had from Marxism is misery.

I've been around long enough to recognise brainwashing when I see it. Any rational person would rather have their children educated by intelligent, caring, knowledgeable Christians than by shadowy secretive characters who are straight out of a John Wyndham novel.

In the end you have a big advantage over those of us who oppose you in online arguments - your opponents are the ones who can find themselves in court accused of "crimes".

[John2]

LOL, OK, I have you sussed out... bible basher.

You probably watch and listen to the BBC's drivel (paid for by extortion).

Wrong.

You never answer any specific criticisms of your sinister, horrible and clearly dangerous Wokery religion (e.g. the RAF recruitment madness).

All I've said is that I'm capitalist and that I'm also uncomfortable with people going through male puberty winning women's sporting competitions.

What on earth is wrong with Christians? In the last century they have done far less harm than your nasty destructive Marxist friends. "Critical Race Theory" like the other "Critical Theories" is an idiotic dogma without any foundation in fact and it is being forcibly imposed on our helpless children against the will and even without the knowledge of their parents by very ignorant and irresponsible adults in an atmosphere of fear. It is being enabled by extreme left-wing policies in the establishment and I am sorry to say in central government.

Nothing wrong with "Christians", but Christianity is an outdated, irrelevant nonsense that is used to divide humans. Religions are poisonous ideologies that encourage us to look at each other based on our religion rather than as fellow human beings.

The words in the bible are used to orchestrate many acts of oppression and have been through history.

Whatever you think about Christianity (which is not without its own loonies e.g., creationists), at least it gave us glorious culture - music, art and architecture. All we have ever had from Marxism is misery.

Marxist culture has been crap, I agree, I'm no supporter of communism, as you have already been told and ignored.

Culture is subjective.

I was baptised and used to get taken to church as a kid and found the services unbelievably boring and tedious. I wouldn't subject my children to that.

Boring old songs, the same ones every week that people have been singing for hundreds of years. yawn.

I was in Rome last week, and I confess there is some stunning architecture. But we also have exceptional modern architecture for non religious buildings too.

I can honestly say I find immersing in the hedonism and light show of a good music festival literally 1000x more entertaining and a greater contribution to culture than going to church on a Sunday. Driven by technology and science I've seen more innovation in festivals and entertainment in the last 10 years than in 1000 years of the stagnant churches. That's my opinion, I'm sure you'd hate the festivals too, you are entitled to prefer being brainwashed at boring church services.

What you don't get and I will not allow is this self-righteous belief that the culture you enjoy is "better" than mine. It's not based on anything other than your own ignorance.

I've been around long enough to recognise brainwashing when I see it. Any rational person would rather have their children educated by intelligent, caring, knowledgeable Christians than by shadowy secretive characters who are straight out of a John Wyndham novel.

No sh*t. A hell of a straw man.

You'd rather have your kids raised by intelligent, caring, knowledgeable Marxists than by shadowy secretive child abusers.But you're more likely to find the latter in a position of power in a church.

In the end you have a big advantage over those of us who oppose you in online arguments - your opponents are the ones who can find themselves in court accused of "crimes".

And yet still, silence... name one of these things people used to be able to say that they can't now?

I've not had a single example.

[Brin]

Right...it's time to bring this topic back on line.

In regards to McClean, should he just ignore the taunts laid at him or should he complain every time this happens?

John2, I don't want a Tolstoy's War and Peace reply. Same applies to anyone else who has contributed more than 60 words in a reply.

Oops! Am I stifling 'freedom of speech'?