O/T Trussed in Leader gone

[howdydoo]

Tend to agree.

Historically miners and car assembly workers were amongst the highest paid jobs in the UK, but they wanted more.

Look where they are now.

To be successful in manufacture you need cheap Labour and cheap power, we’ve got neither compared to other countries

The Germans would disagree. Spanish too.

[ragingpup]

Germany are moaning that they are losing millions since we left.

Oh thank **** for that. Doesn't matter if we're all starving, as long as the Germans are too.

[mygiddypant]

Do you ever answer a question?

Yes.

Your turn. Do you ever read what you write before posting it? If the answer is yes, then go back and read what you wrote in post 139.

[ragingpup]

The EU will break up within the next 30 years.

I think it quite likely that the idea of the EU as a 'one nation' entity may well go before that. But the concept of them having a no trade barrier economic area that benefits all members, why would they do away with that? It benefits all businesses in all of the member countrues and is a trading no brainer.

[avondalemiller]

My mates wife worked at the Sewing factory in Masbrough ( Courtaulds), she got my partner a job there about 1992, she was on over £6 a hour then, i was on about £3.50 I said it will go bust soon. Courtaulds closed it and moved it to Morocco because it was cheaper(surprise). My partner moved up in the industry and visited the factories in Casablanca and Tangiers, H&S ? forget it.
They got greedy with the prices and eventually a few years later China took all the work. She worked/lived there over 7yrs supervising the factories there and also in Sri Lanka, Bangkok and now Vietnam. China is on it's ar$e, cannot get a people to work in the factories. Chinese companies are now building factories in Vietnam and Myanmar where they will work and are cheaper.

If people think that non specialised manufactoring will return to the uk in numbers then dream on. Look what happened in the Leicester factories who make for Boohoo and the other throw away companies, people were lucky to earn £3 a hour.
Unless this is what people want.........lots buy their products and then moan about equality and social justice.
Look at the labels in all your clothes....................

[howdydoo]

I think it quite likely that the idea of the EU as a 'one nation' entity may well go before that. But the concept of them having a no trade barrier economic area that benefits all members, why would they do away with that? It benefits all businesses in all of the member countrues and is a trading no brainer.

Benefits all members. I don’t think all member states would entirely agree. There’s always an underlying of self interests involved.

I think our politicians could have done a lot, lot better. We could do so much better.

I’m importing goods from the EU every day. It’s a pain.

What I buy and further afield, the high value ticket goods I see on roads, households, the high street etc. could be made here.

[KerrAvon]

The problem lies with the workforce. We’d be back to the 70’s within 3 years.

Have you seen the price of a new car today?

That's a very black and white view, Howdy.

If you look at the history of, say, the British moror industry, I think it's clear that there was a significant failure of management. There was a failure to innovate, which resulted in the industry turning out poorly engineered and shoddily built cars.

For what it's worth, my theory is that this country suffered from the legacy of empire. British industry had enjoyed pretty much guaranteed markets around the world, so why bother with such troublesome things as investment and R&D? There was no need to look at what the market wanted when those markets were guaranteed. When British industry had to trade in the real world it was very poorly prepared

There was(and is) a clear problem with industrial relations in the UK, but that's a two sided thing. I'm no expert, but my understanding of the German model is that employees have representation within the manegement of the businesses they work for. That has to be better than the 'them and us' UK approach.

[Redshank]

I hear you shank and pretty much agree with your analysis of the reasons behind where we are and the ultimate conclusion that the only significant wealth that is available that can possibly make a difference to public services is to redirect from those who have gained the most in the last three decades or so.

The problem is how do you frame a convincing argument to do that that will win a popular vote? The wealth is very well protected by the media owners who help shore up the status quo and sway popular opinion against acting even in its own interests but also, I think that economies are also more complex than we think and that there is actual truth in the fact that the wealth you are trying to redistribute can be very easily moved around the world and any such arguments for what you suggest have to first of all convince the masses that they are not going to crash the economy further by targeting wealth and actually literally find ways of adapting the tax system so that the wealth that has been built up can't be easily moved away from the UK in the first place.

Wish it was as easy as "tax the rich".

I didn't say it was easy but until it's on the agenda in some way, shape or form nothing will change. There has to be some way found to stop/reverse the drain of wealth to the top few percent.

I noticed that a couple of Labour MPs have raised this in TV discussions recently, most notably Clive Lewis. I'm skeptical about whether this indicates a change in tack for the Labour Party but we'll see. With the likes of Lewis making those comments it will be interesting to see how their career develops (or not!) over the coming months as this may be an indicator over Labour's likely stance. Starmer is certainly clamping down hard on anyone perceived as left-wing right now.

[crashbang]

Oh thank **** for that. Doesn't matter if we're all starving, as long as the Germans are too.

Who's starving?

[crashbang]

Latest NHS survey, 2/3rds of UK adults 16 or over, are overweight or obese.