O/T:- The NHS strike - for or against?

[sinophile]

It always amazes me that people swallow Tory bull without questioning it. Why do you think giving pay rises to public sector workers will cause inflation? What will increase in price as a result?

To answer the question about whether supporting NHS strikers, I absolutely do. If you travel almost anywhere in the World you will find people admire the fact that healthcare is provided free of charge when people in the UK need it, regardless of ability to pay. The Tories have always hated the concept and have spent the last 12 years running it down so it can be privatised and owned by multinationals, and charged for by private insurance.

[slack_pie]

It always amazes me that people swallow Tory bull without questioning it. Why do you think giving pay rises to public sector workers will cause inflation? What will increase in price as a result?

Because the money has to come from somewhere. So that either means cuts elsewhere, higher taxes for you and me, or creating money out of thin air, which is what they did during COVID. They inflated the money supply to cover all the people forced out of work, which made everyone worse off. So, to answer your question as to what will increase in price as a result: everything.

If staff from the NHS, Royal Mail, or the railway networks get more money, everyone else will be less well off one way or another. The question is, why should these particular groups of people get preferential treatment during a time when everyone is suffering? Obviously the reason is because they have unions, which allow them to strong-arm the government by using the general public's suffering as leverage.

One more thing: don't we all agree to the terms and conditions of employment agreements when we sign them? Unless it is explicitly stated in a contract that pay will keep up with inflation, what legal right does an employee have to expect otherwise?

[Notts78]

Because the money has to come from somewhere. So that either means cuts elsewhere, higher taxes for you and me, or creating money out of thin air, which is what they did during COVID. They inflated the money supply to cover all the people forced out of work, which made everyone worse off. So, to answer your question as to what will increase in price as a result: everything.

If staff from the NHS, Royal Mail, or the railway networks get more money, everyone else will be less well off one way or another. The question is, why should these particular groups of people get preferential treatment during a time when everyone is suffering? Obviously the reason is because they have unions, which allow them to strong-arm the government by using the general public's suffering as leverage.

One more thing: don't we all agree to the terms and conditions of employment agreements when we sign them? Unless it is explicitly stated in a contract that pay will keep up with inflation, what legal right does an employee have to expect otherwise?

My point exactly. Nurses in the NHS know what they are signing up for. They know the pay. They know the hours and commitment needed. It’s not as though nurses are asked to work 60 hours a week and are not paid appropriately - they are. They are paid a basic. They are paid extra for nights, Saturday pay and Sunday pay. They are also paid overtime. They get paid for the hours they put in. And if over time etc is not available, they can do banked (agency) work for the NHS. I don’t buy in to this can’t afford to live BS… you often hear that nurses/doctors work all the hours possible, sometimes without a break. So what are they spending there money on?

My view is that the NHS is on its knees. If NHS staff are successful and get the demands they want, at what cost? They might be better off but the rest of us will be picking up the tab. The NHS is at a point that’s unsustainable and as such is ripe to be fully privatised or at least in part. Then what?

Nurses etc need to be careful what they wish for.

[Elite_Pie]

My point exactly. Nurses in the NHS know what they are signing up for. They know the pay. They know the hours and commitment needed. It’s not as though nurses are asked to work 60 hours a week and are not paid appropriately - they are. They are paid a basic. They are paid extra for nights, Saturday pay and Sunday pay. They are also paid overtime. They get paid for the hours they put in.

That is just not true. Firstly, nurses didn't sign up to be understaffed. It's happening more and more, and it's the main reason so many are leaving the profession. They are being put in a position where they can't do the job they signed up to do because they are often trying to do two jobs. And if you think they get paid for the hours they put in, you are living in cloud cuckoo land. I'll give you a real example when I get time.

[upthemaggies]

If you travel almost anywhere in the World you will find people admire the fact that healthcare is provided free of charge when people in the UK need it, regardless of ability to pay.

And yet we're the least healthy nation in the developed world. It's a system that infantilises people and discourages them from taking responsibility for their own health, alcohol in-take in particular which apparently creates the biggest strain of all on NHS resources.

It was a great idea when it was introduced at a time when large swathes of the population were still living in Victorian conditions (see those photographs of bare-foot unwashed malnourished kids on the inner city streets taken as late as the 1960s). It's not fit for purpose in the 21st century however.

[sidders]

And yet we're the least healthy nation in the developed world. It's a system that infantilises people and discourages them from taking responsibility for their own health, alcohol in-take in particular which apparently creates the biggest strain of all on NHS resources.

It was a great idea when it was introduced at a time when large swathes of the population were still living in Victorian conditions (see those photographs of bare-foot unwashed malnourished kids on the inner city streets taken as late as the 1960s). It's not fit for purpose in the 21st century however.

You disappoint me with this post, utm. From what source do you draw your opening statement? My own life survives purely because a wonderful surgeon performed a tricky operation in the nick of time. He told me that he had given me an extra 6 years' life. Well, I'm still here 12 years on.
The nanny state does indeed infantilise some people but balance that against the number whose lives are transformed by access to care and information. In the US my condition would have reduced me to penury purely by chance. I have always eaten sensibly and exercised regularly so my aneurysm wasn't a result of my own carelessness.
Don't throw out the baby etc. The NHS needs reform but its founding principles hold good to this day. I'd rather it had the power to reform itself than be thrown to Tory politicians and their open pockets.