O/T:- The NHS strike - for or against?

[GranthamPie]

So what do you think should be done about it??? Pretty much shows that throwing endless cash at it isn't going to sort it out. The NHS is no longer and hasn't been for a long long time been sustainable in it's current format.

Labour just use it for political points scoring while offering zero ideas!!

Utter garbage!

The NHS is on its knees because Governments (particularly Tory ones) have refused to separate funding for social care and healthcare. The Government (tax payer) isn’t throwing endless cash at the NHS…quite the opposite.

In postwar Britain, the average life expectancy was 60-70 years…it’s now 80-90 years. In postwar Britain, basic income tax was 27.5%, it’s now 20%. It was 91% for the Rich… it’s now 40%. Infant mortality is now a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of children who used to die from totally preventable illnesses and diseases in the 40s and 50s. Modern medicines and vaccines have transformed our lives!

The idea that this is a UK i.e. NHS problem is also utter bollox… the Germans and French spend far more on healthcare than we do. The UK spends about 12% GDP on healthcare… on par with most European nations.

My dad, before he died in October was in and it of hospital for years and in my first hand experience of the biggest issue facing the NHS, is the fact that our hospitals are full (to the brim) of elderly patients who cannot be sent home because there is no care in the community available… this is just a simple fact. It’s the single biggest drain on our healthcare system… it’s not a failure of the NHS…it’s a failure of Government to deal with it!

So… we’re living longer and pay far less tax (even less if you’re rich!) than we did when the NHS was founded?

The answer?…. Separate Social Care and Healthcare… fund both proportionately and fairly. And pay more tax!

[GranthamPie]

and sorry, I nearly forgot…. DON’T VOTE FOR THE FCUKING TORIES!

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Utter garbage!

The NHS is on its knees because Governments (particularly Tory ones) have refused to separate funding for social care and healthcare. The Government (tax payer) isn’t throwing endless cash at the NHS…quite the opposite.

In postwar Britain, the average life expectancy was 60-70 years…it’s now 80-90 years. In postwar Britain, basic income tax was 27.5%, it’s now 20%. It was 91% for the Rich… it’s now 40%. Infant mortality is now a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of children who used to die from totally preventable illnesses and diseases in the 40s and 50s. Modern medicines and vaccines have transformed our lives!

The idea that this is a UK i.e. NHS problem is also utter bollox… the Germans and French spend far more on healthcare than we do. The UK spends about 12% GDP on healthcare… on par with most European nations.

My dad, before he died in October was in and it of hospital for years and in my first hand experience of the biggest issue facing the NHS, is the fact that our hospitals are full (to the brim) of elderly patients who cannot be sent home because there is no care in the community available… this is just a simple fact. It’s the single biggest drain on our healthcare system… it’s not a failure of the NHS…it’s a failure of Government to deal with it!

So… we’re living longer and pay far less tax (even less if you’re rich!) than we did when the NHS was founded?

The answer?…. Separate Social Care and Healthcare… fund both proportionately and fairly. And pay more tax!

well said !

[PedroTheFisherman66]

and sorry, I nearly forgot…. DON’T VOTE FOR THE FCUKING TORIES!

and even better well said !!

[Elite_Pie]

So what do you think should be done about it??? Pretty much shows that throwing endless cash at it isn't going to sort it out.

How do you know that? I don't doubt the NHS needs radical reform, but to pretend the Tories have 'thrown endless cash' at it is yet another lie. Ever since they came to power, investment in the NHS has gone down in real terms. The numbers may have increased, but the demand has increased more. They created the mess, they should sort it out.

[magpie_mania]

Utter garbage!

The NHS is on its knees because Governments (particularly Tory ones) have refused to separate funding for social care and healthcare. The Government (tax payer) isn’t throwing endless cash at the NHS…quite the opposite.

In postwar Britain, the average life expectancy was 60-70 years…it’s now 80-90 years. In postwar Britain, basic income tax was 27.5%, it’s now 20%. It was 91% for the Rich… it’s now 40%. Infant mortality is now a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of children who used to die from totally preventable illnesses and diseases in the 40s and 50s. Modern medicines and vaccines have transformed our lives!

The idea that this is a UK i.e. NHS problem is also utter bollox… the Germans and French spend far more on healthcare than we do. The UK spends about 12% GDP on healthcare… on par with most European nations.

My dad, before he died in October was in and it of hospital for years and in my first hand experience of the biggest issue facing the NHS, is the fact that our hospitals are full (to the brim) of elderly patients who cannot be sent home because there is no care in the community available… this is just a simple fact. It’s the single biggest drain on our healthcare system… it’s not a failure of the NHS…it’s a failure of Government to deal with it!

So… we’re living longer and pay far less tax (even less if you’re rich!) than we did when the NHS was founded?

The answer?…. Separate Social Care and Healthcare… fund both proportionately and fairly. And pay more tax!

There is another factor which needs to be taken into account - the huge amount which must be being spent (rightly) on technology - MRI scanners, much more advanced X-ray equipment, expensive medication etc. Just look at the equipment carried in ambulances and trained paramedics etc. At one time an ambulance was really a van!

[calmpie]

Facts are important. Yes Germany and Frances spend a little more as a % of GDP than us. Top of the pile of biggest spenders is the USA - but you would never hear that would you????

We are 4th biggest spenders on healthcare as a % of our GDP in the developed world. Yes, you can certainly argue that Social Care is underfunded but not that the NHS is underfunded.

[Elite_Pie]

Facts are important. Yes Germany and Frances spend a little more as a % of GDP than us. Top of the pile of biggest spenders is the USA - but you would never hear that would you????

We are 4th biggest spenders on healthcare as a % of our GDP in the developed world. Yes, you can certainly argue that Social Care is underfunded but not that the NHS is underfunded.

So if NHS funding is adequate, why is it so understaffed and in such a mess?

[BigFatPie]

Facts are important. Yes Germany and Frances spend a little more as a % of GDP than us. Top of the pile of biggest spenders is the USA - but you would never hear that would you????

We are 4th biggest spenders on healthcare as a % of our GDP in the developed world. Yes, you can certainly argue that Social Care is underfunded but not that the NHS is underfunded.

Yes the US spends a lot more on healthcare for much worse outcomes. Many on the right would like a version of that system, as that is what would maximise profits for the cronies of the people who run this country.

As Grantham says, years of underfunding the NHS and totally neglecting social care is what has driven the current chaos. Even if the 40 new hospitals we were promised somehow materialised, there’s no one to staff them.

[GranthamPie]

Facts are important. Yes Germany and Frances spend a little more as a % of GDP than us. Top of the pile of biggest spenders is the USA - but you would never hear that would you????

We are 4th biggest spenders on healthcare as a % of our GDP in the developed world. Yes, you can certainly argue that Social Care is underfunded but not that the NHS is underfunded.

If you mix social care and healthcare into one gluttonous bucket… you’re gonna end up with a mess. But the Tories know this… everyone knows where they are driving the NHS. Privatisation and profit… end of.