OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Andy, I think the point you are missing here is that everything Swale cites in his posts are absolute irrefutable facts. Conversely, everything posted by anyone else that disagrees with Swale's perspective is merely anecdotal or the result of foolishly believing the right wing media.

Your missing the point, those matters that are facts are fairly easily verifiable, those matters which are rhetoric and hyperbole generally picked up by right wing media sources are quite obvious to most people!

But then as someone who interpreted ethnic minorities as meaning all minorities and then posted a somewhat amusing (to me) disgusted of Croydon rant not actually connected in any way to the point I was making, It almost makes me think you interpret matters as it suits you.

PS what was even funnier than your ranting post, was the fact that AF agreed with every word, even though its was clearly inaccurate with regard to the points I made.

PPS I even pointed you towards some actual non partisan sources to back up my arguments.

PPS So its a bit rich for you to make this claim, most people of average educational attainment would know it to be false.

Toodle Pip!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hey, don't come the raw prawn with me. I'm supporting you entirely in the above post. Everything you post is spot on, everything anyone else posts is tripe and swallowed/regurgitated propoganda. Well maybe apart from the bit about pigs which as about 18 month old old news, and by no means as extreme as the media (not right wing media) made out.

[Andy_Faber]

Hey, don't come the raw prawn with me. I'm supporting you entirely in the above post. Everything you post is spot on, everything anyone else posts is tripe and swallowed/regurgitated propoganda. Well maybe apart from the bit about pigs which as about 18 month old old news, and by no means as extreme as the media (not right wing media) made out.

Toodle pig?

[Trickytreesreds]

TBF to rA, Tricky, rA didn't bring Breivik up, it was the S Man!

Yes I know GP and I do apologise if it sounds like I am blaming him.
The point is relevent that Breivik can be used because his a right wing extremist, yet if his equal and opposite is used, its ignored.
The list is very long as well.

[Trickytreesreds]

Yes but it does show how, figures get exaggerated for effect and there is a strong view that contrary to your assertion that its gone up in number, even official figures think that's an over estimate as many who applied have returned back home as economies in eastern Europe have improved, or because of Brexit and there were a number of duplicate applications.

In point of FACT neither rA or myself told you they had all gone home in droves. Many have but I doubt you can show a post where we said ALL!I pointed out that since Brexit migration from the EU had fallen but had been replaced by non EU migration! Which must have been a bitter pill for the racists amongst the Brexiteers to swallow.

Presumably the fact that there is a severe labour shortage especially in the agricultural and service industry sectors - such that crops have been left to rot in the fields as there has been no labour, pigs have had to be killed on farms and not enter the food chain as they were over weight due to lack of staff for abattoirs and processing plants, rather supports the view that there are considerably less in the UK post Brexit? So not sure how you come to the conclusion we made facts up?

You are doing it again.

When I said ALL, it is tongue in cheek to you two screaming and shouting that all the lorry drivers have gone/ the fruit pickers/car washers, what will we do?
Even taking YOUR figure of 5 million, makes that look very unlikely then doesn't it.

So, when ANYONE complains about the illegal/and legal flood of immigration, it is a racist driven subject then?
Pathetic, even for you.

A governments first priority is to its citizens safety/welfare/ quality of life. Not pacifying industrialists/lefty liberal charities/ politicians personal feelings.

As for the last paragraph, its laughable. Your answer to it, is to bring in **** loads of cheap labour, to do something for peanuts instead of solving the issue at hand.
Not only fuelling poverty wages/ but impacting the welfare system/ social services/ quality of life. So much for your socialist leanings, you have more in kin with the exploitation of labour by industrialists.

Your "facts" are always on your say so and RA believes that everything printed in the Guardian is the Holy truth and must never be questioned.
Its all perspective sir and I'm afraid you 2 don't give an inch on opinions different to your own.

[ramAnag]

Tricky...you’re making yourself look ridiculous...again.
Last week both MA and GP ridiculed your hopelessly inaccurate conclusions. Even today GP has corrected you...again.
Today you’ve misrepresented me by describing ‘my’ Abbott and Corbyn when anyone who follows this forum knows I have little time for either.
Now you’re saying I ‘believe that everything printed in the Guardian is the Holy Truth and never to be questioned’.

For the record, the facts are, I think both Abbott and Corbyn are lousy politicians, albeit with a great deal more integrity than most of the current Cabinet, but a marked tendency to shoot themselves in the foot. I also read articles in the Guardian, although I prefer the ‘i’, but I don’t believe any news source is ‘never to be questioned’.

You do what you do...put words in people’s mouths and make things up when you have no argument left...but if you could stop writing hopelessly inaccurate bollux about me it would be appreciated.

[Andy_Faber]

Agreeing with rA tricky, I think you had a bad morning, we are all aware of rA’s political leanings but no need for inaccuracies/fabrications to attempt to belittle them

[swaledale]

You are doing it again.

When I said ALL, it is tongue in cheek to you two screaming and shouting that all the lorry drivers have gone/ the fruit pickers/car washers, what will we do?
Even taking YOUR figure of 5 million, makes that look very unlikely then doesn't it.

So, when ANYONE complains about the illegal/and legal flood of immigration, it is a racist driven subject then?
Pathetic, even for you.

A governments first priority is to its citizens safety/welfare/ quality of life. Not pacifying industrialists/lefty liberal charities/ politicians personal feelings.

As for the last paragraph, its laughable. Your answer to it, is to bring in **** loads of cheap labour, to do something for peanuts instead of solving the issue at hand.
Not only fuelling poverty wages/ but impacting the welfare system/ social services/ quality of life. So much for your socialist leanings, you have more in kin with the exploitation of labour by industrialists.

Your "facts" are always on your say so and RA believes that everything printed in the Guardian is the Holy truth and must never be questioned.
Its all perspective sir and I'm afraid you 2 don't give an inch on opinions different to your own.

OK, well when we talk of facts, at least mine are verifiable whereas yours are usually direct quotes from some dodgy media source or a politician making mischief because they know people like you will lap it up.

So now your back tracking? Admitting that neither rA or myself said all the Eu migrants had gone, thanks for that.

Neither were we screaming about all the lorry drivers etc. have gone - however, it is the case that there are still serious shortages of labour in many industries and indeed the NHS its a verifiable fact, you don't have to do much research to establish that's true.

The reason is simple demographics, I repeat this every time, but you seem not to understand there are not enough people to do the jobs available due to the drop in birth rate.

That's the thing about Brexit, some how the establishment and industrialists persuaded the people they have been exploiting and ripping off for many decades to vote for something that would actually make them worse off.

There has been much detailed independent research that shows EU immigration did not result in lower wages any more than Brexit has resulted in increased wages - with the possible exception of some lucky lorry drivers. On the other hand a reduction in the power of unions and anti union legislation may well have done so!

I agree a government s first duty is to look after the welfare and safety of its citizens - something that this Tory government has singularly failed to do by imposing a ruinous austerity regime and failing to invest in public services and infrastructure over the past 13 years. That's not my opinion its an easily established fact.

But I keep asking this question - the economy as it currently runs requires a workforce to continue growth, pay for pensions and health care of our aging population etc. which we all benefit from. Sure we could manage with lower growth and different economic model, somehow I don't think you or those who voted Brexit are up for that.

But if this growth of population had resulted from an increase in the birth rate of the resident population, which would have the same impact on jobs, services etc. what would your solution be?

The failure in managing immigration can also be laid at the door of this government and yes if they don't resource services properly, if they insist on acting illegally in applying the law - or are you suggesting that the law should only be applied where it suits? If so what happens when you are the victim of a government misapplying the law? - then they will fail.

The fact is this government governs by empty rhetoric, blaming immigration or so called woke lefty's for their own failures - and providing simplistic solutions to complex issues - the EU certainly wasn't perfect, what organisation created by humans is?

My facts are those which can be verified from a number of sources, I certainly don't think the Guardian or indeed any media can be trusted completely, I read across a range of media and sources coupled with my own experiences and knowledge I am as often appalled by those on the left as those on the right.

I've actually acknowledged where some things you have said are right, but of course when something is clearly not as you have said - I'm hardly going to agree.

[swaledale]

hey, don't come the raw prawn with me. I'm supporting you entirely in the above post. Everything you post is spot on, everything anyone else posts is tripe and swallowed/regurgitated propoganda. Well maybe apart from the bit about pigs which as about 18 month old old news, and by no means as extreme as the media (not right wing media) made out.

I'm glad you do, very comforting to know that serious deep thinking gentleman like yourself is supportive. It gives me a nice warm feeling, but that maybe because I've pissed myself!

Oh by the way, the pigs issue is very much alive, (or dead), its tapered off because pig farmers reduced their stocking rates or are getting out of pigs altogether.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'm glad you do, very comforting to know that serious deep thinking gentleman like yourself is supportive. It gives me a nice warm feeling, but that maybe because I've pissed myself!

Oh by the way, the pigs issue is very much alive, (or dead), its tapered off because pig farmers reduced their stocking rates or are getting out of pigs altogether.

Please don't lecture someone who has forgotten more about pig farming than you've ever known