Junior Doctors wage

[baggieal]

Al they are paid more than experienced nurses, police, teachers etc.. and they can't make most decisions around patient care given that they are 23 and just out of medical school.

It's a cracking wage for year one. I have limited sympathy, they'll clear that student debt in no time with their future consultant salary.

As I said before, everyone has the right to strike and fight for an increase but don't believe the £14 per hour. Everyone deserves a pay rise at the minute.

My daughter Matt left university at least six years ago and her student debt has not decreased due to the interest. She’s on over 60K but pays around 350 per month. Absolutely scandalous and makes a mockery of her killing herself to value education and obtain good grades. Then in Scotland they pay sweet f uck all!

This country does not deserve good people. That’s my point!

[billsbest]

Ridiculous wage. I pay my cleaner the same!

[boingy]

Carers deserve more than any of them. A lot of them don’t even get paid travel time in their own car paid for with their own petrol. They do the work most people including doctors don’t want to do.

[Omegstrat6]

According to the BMA there are two contracts for junior doctors.Those on the 2016 contract earn about £29k in their first foundation year, rising to about £30 in their second. For those on the 2002 contract it would be £25.5k rising to £31.5k. Once they start specialized training they can earn between £40-£53k. They reckon that in real terms their salaries have fallen by about 26% over the past 15 years-well, join the club on that one!

Personally, I think they should be paid more -but then so should a lot of people. Remember the "essential" workers who were allowed to continue to work through the pandemic? The vast majority of these were in the lowest paid sectors-care workers, the workers, retail workers, couriers, postal workers etc. Have they seen great increases in their pay since? Have they f uck. The problem remains the vast inequality in the distribution of wealth in this country and it has bugger all to do with how hard people work or not.

I have some sympathy for junior doctors-but f uck all for those GPs being reputedly offered up to £200/hour to help cover for them.

[baggiematt]

According to the BMA there are two contracts for junior doctors.Those on the 2016 contract earn about £29k in their first foundation year, rising to about £30 in their second. For those on the 2002 contract it would be £25.5k rising to £31.5k. Once they start specialized training they can earn between £40-£53k. They reckon that in real terms their salaries have fallen by about 26% over the past 15 years-well, join the club on that one!

Personally, I think they should be paid more -but then so should a lot of people. Remember the "essential" workers who were allowed to continue to work through the pandemic? The vast majority of these were in the lowest paid sectors-care workers, the workers, retail workers, couriers, postal workers etc. Have they seen great increases in their pay since? Have they f uck. The problem remains the vast inequality in the distribution of wealth in this country and it has bugger all to do with how hard people work or not.

I have some sympathy for junior doctors-but f uck all for those GPs being reputedly offered up to £200/hour to help cover for them.

Again Omeg, it’s totally out of context from the BMA. The 2002 contract was incredibly lucrative as there was a 40-50-80% supplement added on. That’s why they changed it in 2016. The only people left on those deals are doctors who started pre 2016 and were those that choose not to train. They are certainly not at the bottom of the scale and paid very well.

I also think this ‘real terms’ pay decrease is deceiving. They are basing that on if they were on the old contract and had increases in line with inflation. But the old contract is no longer available.

I don’t blame them for being a bit deceptive by the way. They will be mindful that a 4 day strike will cost lives, operations and cost a boat load for replacement staff and they will want support for the cause.

[WBA1955]

The world is crazy when footballer's and actors earn far more than doctors. If it was up to me doctor's, nurses paramedics and firemen would be among the highest paid. These are the people that make the difference between life and death, not someone kicking a bag of wind or pretending to be a superhero in a film.
The real superheroes are out there and are generally ignored

[Omegstrat6]

The world is crazy when footballer's and actors earn far more than doctors. If it was up to me doctor's, nurses paramedics and firemen would be among the highest paid. These are the people that make the difference between life and death, not someone kicking a bag of wind or pretending to be a superhero in a film.
The real superheroes are out there and are generally ignored

Totally agree! It has probably always been much the same to some extent but I do honestly think that over recent decades particularly the situation has worsened. If you've ever played that " 6 people in a failing aeroplane but only one parachute" role playing game where you've been randomly given a particular occupation and you have to justify why you should be the one who is saved by getting it, then the whole debate around how we financially reward those we should value more (or less) quickly becomes apparent! Society's moral compass on this does seem skewed but how it can be changed is quite another matter.

[Omegstrat6]

Again Omeg, it’s totally out of context from the BMA. The 2002 contract was incredibly lucrative as there was a 40-50-80% supplement added on. That’s why they changed it in 2016. The only people left on those deals are doctors who started pre 2016 and were those that choose not to train. They are certainly not at the bottom of the scale and paid very well.

I also think this ‘real terms’ pay decrease is deceiving. They are basing that on if they were on the old contract and had increases in line with inflation. But the old contract is no longer available.

I don’t blame them for being a bit deceptive by the way. They will be mindful that a 4 day strike will cost lives, operations and cost a boat load for replacement staff and they will want support for the cause.

I accept everything you say on this baggiematt and whilst the starting pay isn't great, it isn't that bad either and, of course, once they progress the financial rewards are there. One of my concerns however is about the long standing stories of junior doctors being expected to work dangerously long shifts but not being paid for these by the hour because they are salaried. This was the case, but is it still?

It used to be very common in many sectors that junior managers worked long hours and that, if broken down by the hour, their pay was little better than staff rate because they were salaried. The justification was that once they progressed then the financial rewards were there. Working time directives have since eradicated much of this with only the far better paid senior managers being exempt from the directives but are these working time measures now applicable to junior doctors do you know? ( Aside from the financial issue, the danger of working such long shifts would also, of course, be that this would ultimately impact on their performance and therefore the quality of patient care).

[baggieal]

Again Omeg, it’s totally out of context from the BMA. The 2002 contract was incredibly lucrative as there was a 40-50-80% supplement added on. That’s why they changed it in 2016. The only people left on those deals are doctors who started pre 2016 and were those that choose not to train. They are certainly not at the bottom of the scale and paid very well.

I also think this ‘real terms’ pay decrease is deceiving. They are basing that on if they were on the old contract and had increases in line with inflation. But the old contract is no longer available.

I don’t blame them for being a bit deceptive by the way. They will be mindful that a 4 day strike will cost lives, operations and cost a boat load for replacement staff and they will want support for the cause.

Totally get why many who want to enter medicine look at the financials ie 5 years training accruing a debt of over 100K with 7% interest and then a poxy salary which you could earn on a building site! So no wonder there is a shortage of skilled doctors and two fingers up to the NHS!