O/T:- Just Stop Boil

[keldsyke]

In a word, yes.

although you are entitled to an opinion you are way off the mark.

[bule1]

although you are entitled to an opinion you are way off the mark.

Over the years, here are a few but not all

Disc Brakes
Carbon Fibre
Regenerative Braking
Impact absorbtion (crumple zones)
Engine efficiency

[Newish Pie]

Newish Pie I'm not sure where you've appeared from, but your posts to date have been excellent. You make your arguments very well without insulting or dismissing others who may have a different viewpoint. I think that's why you're being well-received by posters across the Notts MAD political spectrum.

Thanks Jakal, that's very kind of you to say. I didn't register to talk about politics... I'm a second-team-see-County-when-I-can fan... I lurked for ages to get different views on the games/greater context, tried to register a few times and then it finally worked....

I'd agree that the BBC probably does appear left-leaning to those used to the Mail/Express/Times, and very left wing compared with GB "News". But that doesn't mean it is. Talk to anyone on the left about the BBC and you'll get a lot of complaints about their right wing bias... very soft on Johnson, refusing to blame Brexit for obviously Brexit-worsened issues, the known political leanings of key political correspondents, the uncritical reporting of Tory party leaks and briefings as fact, scandal around the BBC Chairman etc and so on. There's also complaints about false balance, which I'll return to in a moment.

GB "News" is attempting to be a respectable news source (they're not), and it's a deliberate attempt to move the Overton Window and shift perceptions. So... BBC is left wing, GB "News" is right wing... all fair and balanced overall.... only... no. That's not true at all.

Part of the plan, I think, is to make the BBC look left wing and either discredit it, or convince enough people to regard it as left wing and factor that into their thinking. I don't think GB "News" care about getting loads of regular viewers - just lots of views of various youtube clips will be enough, and I think they want to plant the idea that they're the balance to the BBC because the BBC is left wing. This makes people trust the BBC less. And that's what the funders of GB "News" are after.

There is no left wing equivalent to GB "News". That would be a news channel where the presenters are (say) Owen Jones, George Monbiot, Mick Lynch, John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn. Which… as someone on the left, sounds like an awful approach to news and which I wouldn't watch.

But there is no such news channel, and even if someone believes the BBC News to be left leaning (I disagree), I don't think any reasonable person arguing in good faith could say that GB "News" is the equivalent of the BBC. It's just not. Just look at the presenters. How could it be?

For me, GB "News" crosses a line which should matter to anyone who cares about democracy. Serving politicians should not be presenting current affairs shows. Shouldn't be presenting news shows. Shouldn't be interviewing their own party's Chancellor about the budget. Angus Deayton resigned from presenting "Have I Got News For You" after a scandal, and he said that once he became the story, he couldn't present a topical comedy panel show. That was the right decision. But Rees-Mogg, Farage, 30p Lee, all these others... they're serving or active or recently-active political figures... they are "the story"... fine to be guests and interviewees (of course), but not presenters and interviewers and journalists.

I think we have (had) a tradition in this country that our TV News outlets are so important to our functioning democracy that they must try to be as balanced and impartial as possible. Because if we don't agree on basic facts, we can't even have a conversation. That's one of the things that's gone wrong in the US... though again, there isn't a left wing version of Fox "News" in the sense of living in a parallel reality.

I absolutely agree that balance and political neutrality and impartiality are very difficult, and probably impossible, to do perfectly. But we need to try, and we need to make sure that our TV networks try. It's especially difficult because of "false balance"... where a lot of experts say X, but here's some crank with no expertise to say Y, and we'll present them as equivalent. I think they've also struggled with the increasing willingness of politicians - especially on the right - to resort to outright lies. It never used to be like this... when I was younger, the political right used to pride itself on honour and personal integrity. Not so much recently.

But our options are either to strive - however hard it is - to have a shared conversation through non-partisan media, or we vanish off into our echo chambers where we only hear what we want to hear. I don't care whether you're left wing or right wing, what we should all have in common is a desire for a shared conversation, for basic agreement on facts (even if we disagree on values, or on what to do).

I'm not saying that everyone who watches GB "News" is on the far right. Just that the TV station is. Most people are much more complicated than just being left wing or right wing - some people go left economically but right socially, and so on.

[TedBovisPie]

Most journalism is done from behind a computer screen these days, you just have to look at the amount of correspondents there are at court cases these days, very few unless it’s a major story.

Hard to find a balanced view these days.

[keldsyke]

Over the years, here are a few but not all

Disc Brakes
Carbon Fibre
Regenerative Braking
Impact absorbtion (crumple zones)
Engine efficiency

Ok then, Interested in your views on the progress on thermal efficiency in brake discs combined with Mu levels in relation to disc temperature when you compare F1 with road car discs and how you would keep temperatures (energy) on carbon discs stable and in the right zone for efficiency on a road car so you could maximize constant Mu levels and a predictable pedal feel considering the heat rejection you get from carbon discs and the average driving ability of a normal person? Obviously having cast discs on a road car to carbon discs is a big advantage so carbon discs aren’t feasible?

Also with the regenerative braking, how would you maximize harvesting on a road car considering the budget constraints on a road car to an F1 car and how that’s impacted road car Brake By Wire Systems with the emphasis and regulations being far more stringent on road cars than motorsport?

Carbon fibre isn’t used on road cars (except exotic) as costs and production are too expensive, time consuming and difficult to productionise in very big quantities for manufacturer production lines.

Road car production is far more regulation based and safety critical than Motorsport, when you design something for road car use there is far more testing and hoops to jump through than Motorsport as you really only have to abide to what the homologation and series rules say in motorsport, where as in road cars tbe in built safety factors that need to be built in are usually 2-3:1 and with Government and EU regulations.

Don’t be fooled by what you’re fed by the PR teams, The only cars that benefit from the old tech past down by F1 teams are manufacturer super cars.

[bule1]

Not comparing F1 disc brakes with road cars and you know it, before F1 developed disc brakes, drum bakes were use on road cars. These were far less efficient.

Regen baking is used on various hybrid cars (not exactly super cars)

Carbon fibre is one element used but there are others to make cars lighter (aluminium for one).

F1 cars of today outperform the ones of days gone past with 1.6L engines.

At the same time they have to find engine efficiency due to the fuel limlts imposed.

I am not fooled by PR teams but neither I am fooled by you

[keldsyke]

Not comparing F1 disc brakes with road cars and you know it, before F1 developed disc brakes, drum bakes were use on road cars. These were far less efficient.

Regen baking is used on various hybrid cars (not exactly super cars)

Carbon fibre is one element used but there are others to make cars lighter (aluminium for one).

F1 cars of today outperform the ones of days gone past with 1.6L engines.

At the same time they have to find engine efficiency due to the fuel limlts imposed.

I am not fooled by PR teams but neither I am fooled by you

Just for your info (friendly), drummed brakes ARE more efficient than disc brakes as they retain the potential lost energy ( when you next look at a F1 car notice that they actually encase the disc brake and caliper in a drum to retain and manage the heat energy) Disc brakes were patented in 1902 (I think) by Louis Renault and the first electric car was made by Porsche in the 1930’s I think so it’s all old technology tbh, it’s just been refined, If you don’t believe me just do a bit of research, but this highlights the essence of this thread, people get a little bit of knowledge from an outlet and think it’s gospel and believe it. Take everything you’re told from outlets with a hint of sceptisim, working in motorsport for decades has certainly taught me that.

[bule1]

I do take things with septisism. The commetns on the initial disc brakes and electric cars included, there is a big difference between the first concept and the first practical model. You will be saying that the electric milk floats were the first an best electric vehicles next.

[bule1]

Also if drum brakes are so efficient, why exactly do no cars use them?

[Elite_Pie]

I'd agree that the BBC probably does appear left-leaning to those used to the Mail/Express/Times, and very left wing compared with GB "News". But that doesn't mean it is. Talk to anyone on the left about the BBC and you'll get a lot of complaints about their right wing bias... very soft on Johnson, refusing to blame Brexit for obviously Brexit-worsened issues, the known political leanings of key political correspondents, the uncritical reporting of Tory party leaks and briefings as fact, scandal around the BBC Chairman etc and so on.

Interesting. I once tended to agree that the BBC had a bit of a left wing bias, mainly because serious programmes like Question Time and comedy programmes like Have I Got News For You always seemed anti-Tory. That view was quickly binned during the Covid crisis, when the BBC became nothing more than a propaganda vehicle for the Tories. They were given an incredibly easy ride, repeatedly allowed to avoid pertinent questions and never held to account or asked the awkward ones. Any awkward one was always met by "firstly, let me say thank you to our fantastic / incredible / wonderful /amazing NHS", and the actual question was never answered. Instead of being called BBC News, in the TV listings it should have been titled as "This is a party political broadcast by the Conservative party". At least ITV and Channel 4 asked the relevant questions, to the point where government ministers refused to appear on ITV. BBC left wing bias my arse.