Matchday thread: Derby v Fleetwood

[Ramshank72]

Indeed. Our hands are tied by the business plan and next season's budget won't see us paying out money we don't have. The days of £6M for Bradley Johnson, for example, are well behind us now.

That was the mid-season gamble - we lost, and are paying for it with interest.
Not sad to see the end of those days

[swaledale]

We might all be having a moan, and if PW was on 50k a year he’d be gone with a few more bad results, but he isn’t and we HAVE to avoid the errors of the past so IMO we are stuck with him though thick or thin. One thing that’s pissing me off though is criticism, however light, of mr Clowes, without whom we would bitching about stuff on the Mickleover Sports message board. In Clowes I still very much trust

Criticism of Warne is justified at the moment, no doubt about that, based on where we are and his record from last season. Talk of sacking him at this moment of time is ridiculous, comparison with what Rosenior may or may not have done is pointless, we are where we are.

Talk that Clowes has the resources to effect a change is disingenuous IMO, to date he has managed his ownership well, hasn't made any rash promises and I ahve every confidence he will continue to prove a good owner, fans have short memories, it was a continuous churn in managers and wasting millions on players that got us in to this mess.

Nobody can provide a guarantee as to how a manager and players will perform, even the best strategies can come unstuck for many reasons, but please lets give stability a chance and accept that despite the unexpected performance last season, we are still in the rebuilding and stabilisation stage.

[swaledale]

Sorry Swale but there seems to be some confusion.

I understand completely that, in your words, ‘a million or a few hundred thousand spent on compensation would basically mean that much less in the overall budget for the rest of the season’.

What I’m saying is that if things continue as they are, and I’m not talking first 3 or 4 matches of the season...I’m talking the last four consecutive (football) months...then Mr. Clowes may have to bite the bullet and think again.

What you’re saying is that, again in your own words, you ‘can only see such a scenario happening if results don’t improve and we sink towards the bottom of the league.’

Those are your exact words. The difference is minuscule and you actually accept my suggestion that, if things don’t improve or get even worse then, again in your exact words, ‘the hand may be forced’ and ‘there will be a decision to be made’.

The rest is just frankly a bit of a ramble. ‘Sacking Warne and his backroom staff would be expensive’ and what will be ‘deemed necessary depends entirely on results’ is simply stating the obvious, and as regards your comparison with Cooper a couple of seasons ago...it’d be lovely if it happens, but such turnarounds are rare and if you’re wondering ‘why shouldn’t it work out for Derby’ then perhaps, I wouldn’t know, you haven’t seen much of them recently.

I’ve seen them three times this season...for half an hour, against Stoke, we looked excellent. Against Wigan doubts began to surface. I didn’t go to the Blackpool match, but the Oxford game was as bad as it gets (hopefully)...we were out fought, out played and out managed with a team that looked rudderless, disorganised and demoralised long before the end. You can make excuses if it’s just the opening games of the season scenario, but this comes on top of three very disappointing months at the close of last season so, while I completely share AF’s respect for and belief in DC, my trust in Warne is beginning to wane. I very much hope the turn around starts on Saturday against Fleetwood but, in what as you rightly describe as a results driven business, on the evidence to date I have my doubts.

Point of fact Cooper was last season, when Forest looked dead certain to be relegated from the prem, but Forest stuck with him and they stayed up. The reason we don't see it often is because Managers are rarely afforded the opportunity. Its especially bizarre in newly promoted clubs, because the odds are they will struggle.

rA, I envisage as I've said many times before that unless Derby's status in League 1 is threatened then I don't see Warne being sacked.

You have been criticising Warne since before the start of the season, claiming he can't attract the right players and made inferences that we would have been better to stick with Rosenior. I haven't and still don't think its time to talk about sacking Warne, yes results have been less than average, but my view is that he should be given time to get things right and I believe that is what he will get.

As for whether if results don't improve then things may change, thats obviously a possibility, but at the moment, despite whats currently happening I'm not in that frame of mind. it takes time to build a squad that performs at the top level, Warne should be given that time.

Where I think we differ is that you would want to see a change if we fall away from promotion, whereas I don't see a change unless we are bottom half come November/December.

[MadAmster]

My take on it is that it would be pointless sacking him. Why? We have a business plan, agreed by the EFL. We cannot exceed the spending limits in there. If we take PW at face value, there is currently nothing in the pot. For the sake of argument, let's say he gets sacked today. His replacement is in place by this evening. The pot is still empty. It is then a gamble as to whether A N Other can get better results from the same players. We'd also face the wrath of the EFL as it's almost certain the payoff to PW and his staff would see us break the agreement. More points deductions?

I genuinely believe we are stuck with the current staff because, financially we can't do anything else until the start of next season when the only restrictions will be ant David Clowes puts on the club.

[ramAnag]

Where I think we differ is that you would want to see a change if we fall away from promotion, whereas I don't see a change unless we are bottom half come November/December.

As I said...a minuscule difference...and I wouldn’t ‘want to see a change if we fall away from promotion’ but I do want to see some progress, something I’ve seen precious little of in recent times.

As regards the Forest comparison. You’re right. Last season was when the owner reacted by seeming to buy all available players. I was thinking of their promotion season (21/22) when I think they had to wait till their 7th or 8th game for their first win. If memory serves it cost Hughton his job and brought Cooper to the club.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Looking at the half time scores today, the narrow home defeat of a promotion favourite at home to Wigan looks not so bad! The Oxford result may be more telling but let's start an unbeaten home run today

[macstheman]

Results tend to be erratic early season and it's usually well into Sept before some sort of pattern emerges. For us performances have been pretty consistent, unfortunately consistently crap.
Let's see some sign that some quality in our performance is emerging, that will then produce better results.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Odd. Each team has a right sided defender called Rooney

[Geoff Parkstone]

........but we snuck a result; not sure it matters how, but the home jinx is over. Now let's get back to losing away games like a normal team!

And Oxford win at Barnsley, so they cant be that bad. Just goes to show how unpredictable the first few games of the season are - if it weren't for points deductions our first two defeats would have been against top 5 teams and first two wins against bottom 5 teams. Or maybe its because they played us - hard to say.

And speaking of Barnsley - crush Port Vale by 7 on opening day and are now 6 places below them in the league. WTF

[macstheman]

Wigan would be top but for an 8pt deduction!