O/T:- Climate Change

[upthemaggies]

Ok so it was just a guess.

As I said before, I don't think there's a nice way and a nasty way for billions of people to go extinct.

I expect it will resemble the 1970s Mouse Utopia experiment, at least for the West.

[upthemaggies]

I eat meat and I drive. I much prefer a chicken curry to a vegetarian curry, and my annual mileage is now down to around 3,000 miles. I use public transport when I can, but sometimes it's not available. I would like to see those in power recognise that climate change is real and take appropriate action. If my carnivorous instinct and petrol pollution costs me a bit more, I won't complain because I can see it's for the greater good.

Does that make me a hypocrite or not?

That's for you to decide. Who else has the authority to be judge and jury?

[Elite_Pie]

That's for you to decide. Who else has the authority to be judge and jury?

In that case, I'll sit on the fence.

[Newish Pie]

How many posters here do not eat meat and do not drive?

I do neither and that's my personal choice, none of my business to tell anybody else what to do, but I'm seeing a lot of people talking themselves up on here as morally superior and I'm wondering if that's all it is. Talk.

I'm not seeing anyone talking themselves up as being morally superior. But as I've said before, if we're serious about climate change, it's not about an individual purity competition but about structural level changes. While there's a role for individuals thinking about their personal contribution, ultimately responding to climate change needs governmental and international policy changes and proper leadership.

[BigFatPie]

I eat meat and I drive. I much prefer a chicken curry to a vegetarian curry, and my annual mileage is now down to around 3,000 miles. I use public transport when I can, but sometimes it's not available. I would like to see those in power recognise that climate change is real and take appropriate action. If my carnivorous instinct and petrol pollution costs me a bit more, I won't complain because I can see it's for the greater good.

Does that make me a hypocrite or not?

The charge of hypocrisy is an easy cop out for those with no interest in changing the status quo. (You like immigrants so much put them in your house etc).

Of course issues like immigration and climate change can’t be tackled on an individual basis, only at governmental level. I’m going to see my daughter in Malaysia in a few weeks, I would have no problem if those flights were stopped/taxed out of existence.

[drillerpie]

I expect it will resemble the 1970s Mouse Utopia experiment, at least for the West.

Never heard of it so looked it up.

Lack of space leading to overpopulation and breakdown of social order, then subsequently senseless violence, cannibalism, males stop protecting their females, mothers abandon their young prematurely, deviant behaviour becomes the norm, and finally individuals burrow into the ground to avoid this **** show and live like hermits without reproducing until the species eventually goes extinct.

To clarify, this is your expected outcome for the nice version of human extinction, the one that you are zen about, and you are surprised people ask you to explain this position. Do you feel that's an accurate summary?

[upthemaggies]

Never heard of it so looked it up.

Lack of space leading to overpopulation and breakdown of social order, then subsequently senseless violence, cannibalism, males stop protecting their females, mothers abandon their young prematurely, deviant behaviour becomes the norm, and finally individuals burrow into the ground to avoid this **** show and live like hermits without reproducing until the species eventually goes extinct.

To clarify, this is your expected outcome for the nice version of human extinction, the one that you are zen about, and you are surprised people ask you to explain this position. Do you feel that's an accurate summary?

No I don't, I think the most important part of that experiment that's worth highlighting, being relevant to where we're at right now, is the narcissism and hyper***ual activity, followed by a***uality," bit.
With that in mind, perhaps we're already drawing towards the conclusion of this experiment and the most unpleasant parts are already behind us, if we can avoid the blinding light / melting skin / lethal radiation dose scenario.

Practically all creatures that have ever been have met their end in suffering. That's life and the physical world. Most either starve, succumb to sickness or are picked off by predators. We don't live in a Cbeebies world where everything is nice and cuddly.

[upthemaggies]

The charge of hypocrisy is an easy cop out for those with no interest in changing the status quo. (You like immigrants so much put them in your house etc).

Of course issues like immigration and climate change can’t be tackled on an individual basis, only at governmental level. I’m going to see my daughter in Malaysia in a few weeks, I would have no problem if those flights were stopped/taxed out of existence.

So you need to be told what to do with no choice in the matter. You don't take any personal responsibility for your own actions.

I can see right here why collective guilt trips are so appealing to certain sections of society.

[Jampie]

Like I've said above, I'm happy to accept the predominant scientific opinion on climate change, but I certainly don't believe human beings as a collective across the world will have the willpower to change or abandon, as you say, "the kind of lives we've been able to live", which is exactly what scientists identify as the problem.

Not really. There's no real need to drastically alter lifestyles, "just" switch out a few energy sources. And it's in full swing right now. There's still transitional costs to bear and the fossil fuel companies, their paid shills and useful idiots are making all the noise they can, but honestly I think the majority just aren't listening anymore.

Could all backslide again. The Trump years in the US were particularly bad for that, hopefully we don't see a repeat.

[drillerpie]

No I don't, I think the most important part of that experiment that's worth highlighting, being relevant to where we're at right now, is the narcissism and hyper***ual activity, followed by a***uality," bit.
With that in mind, perhaps we're already drawing towards the conclusion of this experiment and the most unpleasant parts are already behind us, if we can avoid the blinding light / melting skin / lethal radiation dose scenario.

Practically all creatures that have ever been have met their end in suffering. That's life and the physical world. Most either starve, succumb to sickness or are picked off by predators. We don't live in a Cbeebies world where everything is nice and cuddly.

Ok so the mouse thing was more about social commentary of modern day Western society than about human extinction from one of the scenarios we were talking about.

And we could already be past the no space to live in / senseless violence and cannibalism phase.

I'm not really able to follow your train of thought on this one.