Are We Stronger?

[ragingpup]

It was me that made the "love in" comment and once again I'll say that I don't resent MT at all.

What I do resent is people thinking he's some sort of football wizard who's superior to what's come before because he managed to fumble and stumble his way to a survival - after major backing from TS.

These same people won't hear the argument that so far he is simply Alan Stubbs with better PR.

Theres been maybe 12 good performances since hes taken over with too much dross of a squad that simply appears to have turned up on the day having never seen each other before.

Seems to be so much hyperbole on both pro and anti Taylor and yes, some of it does seem influenced by feelings towards the former manager. I think it hugely unfair to say that Taylor fumbled his way to survival 'despite major backing'. I think the major backing is a little over emphasised - we sold Barlaser (and therefore lost our best player sans Viking) and that funded the incoming deals and likewise, Wiles going out was spent on the summers incoming, although to be fair to the chairman, Taylor is indicating that he has been backed well beyond that also.

I think Taylor has a long way to go to proving himself at this level (as does PWE for that matter!) but I still think he needs time to gel the squad, see if the injury count comes down (yes the back 3 were a risk that looks horrendous now and I said we shouldn't do that as we signed them) and even above all else, he still has to live as Warne did with the fact that we have the lowest wage bill in the league by some distance (as far as I'm aware) and have to make do with the fact that we will only get players that no one else in our league wants and I think any manager bar the super few would struggle with that. And we couldn't afford them either! Let's see how it goes and if we go dowm, I'd stick with Taylor to have a shot at rebuilding.

[fc_miller]

8. Our best players are the ones that were here before (Viking, Odofin, Humpreys, Rathbone, Fergie, Lindsay (MT mentioned him) and even Bramall)

Some of our worse players were here before, its called inheriting a squad with players on more than a 1 year deal. It takes a few years to have a squad that is fully signed by the the current manager in charge.

[Citizen Erased]

Seems to be so much hyperbole on both pro and anti Taylor and yes, some of it does seem influenced by feelings towards the former manager. I think it hugely unfair to say that Taylor fumbled his way to survival 'despite major backing'. I think the major backing is a little over emphasised - we sold Barlaser (and therefore lost our best player sans Viking) and that funded the incoming deals and likewise, Wiles going out was spent on the summers incoming, although to be fair to the chairman, Taylor is indicating that he has been backed well beyond that also.

I think Taylor has a long way to go to proving himself at this level (as does PWE for that matter!) but I still think he needs time to gel the squad, see if the injury count comes down (yes the back 3 were a risk that looks horrendous now and I said we shouldn't do that as we signed them) and even above all else, he still has to live as Warne did with the fact that we have the lowest wage bill in the league by some distance (as far as I'm aware) and have to make do with the fact that we will only get players that no one else in our league wants and I think any manager bar the super few would struggle with that. And we couldn't afford them either! Let's see how it goes and if we go dowm, I'd stick with Taylor to have a shot at rebuilding.

Agreed I'd stick with Taylor for a rebuild - if we start to build an identity this season beyond what he has shown in the last 12 months.

I say that because he clearly left a good structure and identity in place at Exeter.

That being said we are a year in and it feels like his first month still.

I do think the comment that Taylor stumbled over the line is fair. He's yet to show anything other than relegation form over his time here. We went backwards last season and it took the old gaurd to come in and get us over the line.

Yes, the same is true of Warne for the most part too, but I knew what to expect of a Warne squad. I just wish those who obviously cannot get over the fact he's left would accept that.

Completely agree about the transfer situation and his focus.

For me, this is where he has gone very, very wrong. He's taken a squad that could press and frustrate the opposition and grind out a draw - too many at times - and turned it into a side that turns up for a belly rub too often.

Too many punts.

His judgement must improve rapidly too.

Everything done has been deliberate. Here is my biggest gripe..

He stated clearly that we needed more quality because players from lower levels busting their guts week in week out cannot keep you out of trouble and doing that leads to repeated injuries and a fatigued squad. He said this in November, December, January and again over the summer.

That same squad was able to go a season or two and be relatively OK fitness wise and we'd usually outwork every team.

He replaced that with a squad who was fatigued on game 3 and then again after a two week rest period. That's not acceptable and that alone would be a reason, even as early as now, for his dismissal.

To compound this the "quality" we have signed is no better than what we had under Warne. It's also clearly costing the club more as the bench is weaker, by far. The exception being Cafu, Christ and Fred...Fred basically being a drop in Cheo. Still we are a weaker team than we were I League One.

What's worse is this was always going to be the case when looking at what's been signed and their appearances over the past 2/3 years. Especially Morrison.

That particular set of mistakes, coupled with no tactical style, no Plan A or Plan B in most games and the insisntance of playing with Hugill for seemingly no other reason than to give someone a black eye is what must change and change before October comes to it's end.

If we are 15 games in without a showing of improvement and a switch towards something better... He should be shown the door. If we do improve and it's clear that lessons have been learned and the style is improving then I'd keep him for the inevitable rebuild if we did drop down.

[millertop]

Middlesbrough are bottom of table and we are not is all I’m saying because it’s definitely pointless even trying to talk to some fans

[Masbroughstreet]

Agreed I'd stick with Taylor for a rebuild - if we start to build an identity this season beyond what he has shown in the last 12 months.

I say that because he clearly left a good structure and identity in place at Exeter.

That being said we are a year in and it feels like his first month still.

I do think the comment that Taylor stumbled over the line is fair. He's yet to show anything other than relegation form over his time here. We went backwards last season and it took the old gaurd to come in and get us over the line.

Yes, the same is true of Warne for the most part too, but I knew what to expect of a Warne squad. I just wish those who obviously cannot get over the fact he's left would accept that.

Completely agree about the transfer situation and his focus.

For me, this is where he has gone very, very wrong. He's taken a squad that could press and frustrate the opposition and grind out a draw - too many at times - and turned it into a side that turns up for a belly rub too often.

Too many punts.

His judgement must improve rapidly too.

Everything done has been deliberate. Here is my biggest gripe..

He stated clearly that we needed more quality because players from lower levels busting their guts week in week out cannot keep you out of trouble and doing that leads to repeated injuries and a fatigued squad. He said this in November, December, January and again over the summer.

That same squad was able to go a season or two and be relatively OK fitness wise and we'd usually outwork every team.

He replaced that with a squad who was fatigued on game 3 and then again after a two week rest period. That's not acceptable and that alone would be a reason, even as early as now, for his dismissal.

To compound this the "quality" we have signed is no better than what we had under Warne. It's also clearly costing the club more as the bench is weaker, by far. The exception being Cafu, Christ and Fred...Fred basically being a drop in Cheo. Still we are a weaker team than we were I League One.

What's worse is this was always going to be the case when looking at what's been signed and their appearances over the past 2/3 years. Especially Morrison.

That particular set of mistakes, coupled with no tactical style, no Plan A or Plan B in most games and the insisntance of playing with Hugill for seemingly no other reason than to give someone a black eye is what must change and change before October comes to it's end.

If we are 15 games in without a showing of improvement and a switch towards something better... He should be shown the door. If we do improve and it's clear that lessons have been learned and the style is improving then I'd keep him for the inevitable rebuild if we did drop down.

Great post, I'd pretty much agree with everything.

[fc_miller]

Relegation form, what are people expecting? we are favourites for relegation as we were last year, and every other time we've been in 2nd tier in 21st century. If we stay up on last game of season then great, though for 45 games it will have been relegation form!

[fc_miller]

Lessons learnt? Last home game plenty we're saying this is some of best football they've seen. Goal at Sunderland came after great team play passing the ball, not just hitting crosses to a 6'3 striker. We competed with a team in the PL last year asnd unlucky not to take a point.
Is this not an improvement in our football style?

No point reviewing after 15 games, if we struggle to remember more than 2 games back.

[Masbroughstreet]

Lessons learnt? Last home game plenty we're saying this is some of best football they've seen. Goal at Sunderland came after great team play passing the ball, not just hitting crosses to a 6'3 striker. We competed with a team in the PL last year asnd unlucky not to take a point.
Is this not an improvement in our football style?

No complaints from me about our home form this season, we've played great. I think most people accept we'd should probably have had 7 points instead of 4 from the home games if it wasn't for factors beyond our control. But the away form is so far removed from the home form it's baffling. Apart from a decent start at Sunderland this season so far we've offered nothing away from home, you just know as soon as we go a goal down we may as well pack up and go home. While the style has been good at home, when we're away it looks like the team have never even met each other. 11 goals conceded in 4 games (17 in 5 if you include the cup game at Stoke) and it could easily have been double.

[millertop]

Lessons learnt? Last home game plenty we're saying this is some of best football they've seen. Goal at Sunderland came after great team play passing the ball, not just hitting crosses to a 6'3 striker. We competed with a team in the PL last year asnd unlucky not to take a point.
Is this not an improvement in our football style?

No point reviewing after 15 games, if we struggle to remember more than 2 games back.

Some were asking for his head last season before we stayed up that is then they disappeared for a while

[mellowmiller]

Middlesbrough are bottom of table and we are not is all I’m saying because it’s definitely pointless even trying to talk to some fans

They were last season at this stage but finished up in the playoffs.
They have far more quality than we do and will inevitably finish above us.