Saints slipping Halo apparently.

[WTF11]

But we did have the 'token' human scout as Gaby Ruiz was bought in by Orta as Head of European Recruitment.

Spaniard Ruiz was also hired by Orta at Boro in February 2016.
Prior to joining Boro, Ruiz worked on Spanish television as a commentator & analyst for more than 20 years.

Ruiz 'left' Leeds in June 2023.

Both from media backgrounds too.
Orta a former journalist who had worked for Marca, Spains leading sports daily & Sky Espana. He also worked as a football Agent & a qualified coach.

My personal view (in hindsight) is that his background always favoured his need for having a entertainment-persona psyche rather than the steady sound technical attributes that his position really required, which often showed.

The fact that he liked to lead every initiative & felt that the club couldn’t run without him speaks volumes.
I heard he couldn’t take a vacation for fear that everything would fall apart - that aint healthy for him or others around.
Radz appalling naivety to not reign him in was also to blame at key moments, for sure.

If Cellino hadn't owned LUFC I find it hard to believe that Radrizzani would have been able to buy the club. One mad Italian selling to another equally inept one, capable of having the wool pulled over his eyes by one Boro failure who then employed another. Only surprise is we didn't get Karadka!

[WTF11]

Sorry, Karanka!

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Not sure where the idea that Cellino and Radz were completely bad for the club comes from - the reality seems to be they both did good things and both made mistakes. Radz should have gone the summer before most probably. Without him not sure there was anyone in the wings who would have overseen us getting back to the Prem.

Orta definitely had his faults and seemed to have an oversized ego and again by the end appeared to have lost touch with footballing reality but along the way signed some good players for us (as well as duds) but a lot of clubs do.

Big data is used by most clubs these days so the idea of basing key decisions upon it is not a bad one as long as the decision maker(s) are good which latterly seemed to be an issue.

[spaldy]

Orta's a hard one to defend in any regard and Celino is "mad as a hatter".

However, over the years most any dealing I have with leaders such as politicians, company execs, bureacrats, educators and yes even sports teams is marked by incompetence, corruption, avarice and an insatiable lust for power. To keep some semblance of positive on an generally negative world I've distilled it down to one simple question.

Is my family or I better off than they were before dealing with the that person. If the answer is yes I consider myself blessed. If not it just affirms my belief in those classes of people.

As crazy as it sounds. The answer was yes for both Radz, Orta and Celino. We are better off than were were with GFH or Bates. However, I think we are going to be much better off with the 49's than the others.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Orta's a hard one to defend in any regard and Celino is "mad as a hatter".

However, over the years most any dealing I have with leaders such as politicians, company execs, bureacrats, educators and yes even sports teams is marked by incompetence, corruption, avarice and an insatiable lust for power. To keep some semblance of positive on an generally negative world I've distilled it down to one simple question.

Is my family or I better off than they were before dealing with the that person. If the answer is yes I consider myself blessed. If not it just affirms my belief in those classes of people.

As crazy as it sounds. The answer was yes for both Radz, Orta and Celino. We are better off than were were with GFH or Bates. However, I think we are going to be much better off with the 49's than the others.

Exactly - Orta for all his many faults bought us Bielsa (my favourite all time manager for us that I have seen) and Rapha (up there with Speed, Batty and Gary Mc as my all time favourite player).

The way he spoke to fans at Brentford, his belief in Yeeee Ha, how he treated Bielsa and the nonsense with the loan clauses were all appalling though.

Radz was perhaps a wee bit naive when we got to the Prem and wasn’t able to make the further changes needed to be successful but he got us there and did bring on board the 49ers who seem to be doing pretty well so far having been dealt a poor hand.

[ozleeds]

Exactly - Orta for all his many faults bought us Bielsa (my favourite all time manager for us that I have seen) and Rapha (up there with Speed, Batty and Gary Mc as my all time favourite player).

The way he spoke to fans at Brentford, his belief in Yeeee Ha, how he treated Bielsa and the nonsense with the loan clauses were all appalling though.

Radz was perhaps a wee bit naive when we got to the Prem and wasn’t able to make the further changes needed to be successful but he got us there and did bring on board the 49ers who seem to be doing pretty well so far having been dealt a poor hand.

Cellino was great a bit mad but had his heart where his money and mouth were.
Radz was a DH who trusted another with his money which cost him big time.
Orta was and is a total fraud and a loser.

[spaldy]

WTF,

respectfully disagree... seriously. You are correct that Bates kept us in existence. However, it was a long term purgatory. Leeds has a huge and active following. After that first wave of saving the club it would have been very easy for him to find some more investors or take a little less out of the kitty. Even in the darkest days we drew 20K+ and sold marketing and merchandise. After that period we literally became the Amazon of other teams. Any time we found and developed a player that had a little value he sold them... even if we were in the mix for promotion. We were pretty close on a couple of teams but he'd sell before we could get to the next level.

Really feel we should have been pushing for promotion after 2010. Football had not gotten as expensive as it is today to sign top flight players. we also seemed to have some pretty good scouts back then. we had some really good players for the limited budget.

we also did beat scum at OT in the FA cup!!! Beckford's best goal ever. Screamed myself silly.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Read it all when Bates is portrayed as the saviour of Leeds - UFB!

[WTF11]

Orta's a hard one to defend in any regard and Celino is "mad as a hatter".

However, over the years most any dealing I have with leaders such as politicians, company execs, bureacrats, educators and yes even sports teams is marked by incompetence, corruption, avarice and an insatiable lust for power. To keep some semblance of positive on an generally negative world I've distilled it down to one simple question.

Is my family or I better off than they were before dealing with the that person. If the answer is yes I consider myself blessed. If not it just affirms my belief in those classes of people.

As crazy as it sounds. The answer was yes for both Radz, Orta and Celino. We are better off than were were with GFH or Bates. However, I think we are going to be much better off with the 49's than the others.

Unsurprisingly, I disagree, at least insofar as the comparison between Bates and Radrizzani.

Without Ken Bates' intervention, LUFC would have ceased to exist. did he do that out of love for LUFC? clearly not. He did it to further his own ends, just as EVERY owner since Silver has. Despite the many downsides to his tenure as owner, the club owes its existence to his intervention, and his fight with the FA over a protracted period of time during which the nature of the way he acquired the club were questioned/challenged, to the extent that attempts were made to declare the deal null and void, which had they succeeded would have again led to LUFC ceasing to exist.

In addition, and again despite never endearing himself to the fans, the period of Bates' ownership saw gradual improvement in both the quality of players recruited and the performances and position of the club "on the field". From 2007 to 2010 LUFC went from League 1 to the Championship, and Bates tenure as owner ended shortly after (perhaps he considered that was the best that could be achieved?). With all the opposition (from HMRC and other "bodies"), to have overseen progress in three seasons isn't to be sniffed at (many clubs in League 1 now would wish to have done the same).

Yes, we were in the Championship for a Looooong time, but we could have been out of business, or playing in the non-professional leagues, without Bates.

Radrizzani didn't inherit the basket case that Bates did, Cellino may have been mad as a hatter, but he didn't do that badly (the team hovered mid-table for most of his time as owner), for the kind of owner he was! Many of the players who were to go on to deliver promotion were already at the club when Radrizzani and his entourage arrived. The catalyst that was required came in the form of Bielsa, and for as long as I breathe (and I know for some of you that shouldn't be too long) I refuse to believe that Orta has anything other than "bag carrying" duties in the process of getting Bielsa on board. Even if I'm wrong, so what, Radrizzani still failed to act like the kind of owner we have needed, by investing in players that could capitalise on, and take forward, the kind of football we became used to seeing from LUFC during Bielsas time at the club. So what is Radrizzanis legacy? A club back where it was when he took ownership, up to the point where the 49ers came on the scene a club that was seemingly incapable to investment, and when it WAS possible, it was investment in the wrong players, acquired for the wrong reasons, and without a hope of preventing relegation back to the Championship. His duplicitous nature was exposed when he tried to use his stake in ER as security against a loan to support buying ANOTHER club, WITHOUT informing his (at the time) joint owner of LUFC.

Bates wasn't very nice, but you knew he was out of himself and LUFC was a way to enrich himself, that much was as clear as day. Radrizzani was the archetypal hypocrite, putting of a front of an owner with his heart and soul devoted to the interests of LUFC, when all along it was his aim to use us as a mere stepping stone to his real hearts desire.

[Monaco_Totty]

Riveting stuff developing from your excellent post, Spaldy.
Love the detailed responses of all courteous replies too.

Certainly got myself & family well hooked. 😎 Just hope we dont end up in the dilemma like the Saints are in now, again.

I'll throw in 'this piece' of the learning jigsaw that is known as LUFC that still needs completing via what we've learnt from previous owners & coaches in how to run a football club.

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/l...paign=exchange