Matchday Thread: Derby v Cambridge

[swaledale]

I’m sorry MA (and GP)...I ALWAYS take notice of what you have to say about DCFC and I’m not sure if you’re criticising my (and AF’s) opinions or those from other areas of social media which I don’t follow.
I appreciate that you spend an enormous amount of time and money following Derby however what you, GP and (I think) Swale have in common is that you actually attend Pride Park relatively rarely...maybe half a dozen times a season between the three of you.
I’m not criticising any of you for that, it’s entirely circumstantial, but maybe you could all spare a thought for the long suffering faithful at PP for whom the last 7-8(!) months have been pretty dire.
What you’re talking about isn’t ‘realism’...it is, as AF suggests, ‘whatifism’. IMO there is no reason for a place within the top six not to be a ‘realistic’ aspiration this season. We are, or were, the bookies favourites and we have a manager who repeatedly talks up the the possibility of promotion.
Unfortunately I am getting to the stage where I can only whole heartedly agree with AF’s definition of ‘reality’. I really want things to work out under Warne...sadly, throughout virtually the whole of 2023, I just haven’t seen much/any evidence of that being likely to happen. Happy for anyone to provide grounds for optimism.

To be fair rA, you were being pessimistic and doom mongering before a ball had even been kicked. Suggesting that if we'd kept Rosenior Derby would have been promoted last season! You rubbished the signings made before they had even kicked a ball in anger, so basically its a self fulfilling prophecy!

Bookies favourite? So what? It means nothing in reality.

Of course the manager talks up the possibility of promotion, what would you rather have him do, say there is little to no chance this season?

Top 6 is a realistic aspiration as indeed is promotion.

Grounds for optimism? We have lost 1 in 4 games, the right back acquired recently seems the real deal, Nelson and Cashin are forming a partnership, midfield looks much better, we are creating chances, just not converting as many as we should. We are despite not being fully on song, only 3pts off a play off place with a game in hand and there are 35 games left!!

If your expecting pretty football, I would suggest your watching the wrong league!! Teams come to Pride Park to frustrate and niggle and hopefully nick a pt or 3, we will win more than we lose at home.

I actually get to see around 12 games a season home and away, but in the past as a ST holder I've watched many very poor quality games over a season. I ahve no expectation that a little over 12 months after being saved from possible liquidation, which has seen a number of good players and promising youngsters sold that a rebuild of the club is going to be either quick or not have peaks and troughs.

Anyway, cheer up, you could be an Owls fan!!!

[swaledale]

I couldn't have put it better myself MA.

We are not doing as well as we might of hoped, but 4 unbeaten suggests we are getting the defensive side sorted (watch us ship goals now I've said that) and I'm optimistic that we will get the rub of the green, stop suffering injuries and start scoring goals.

Sorry lost 1 game in 4.

[ramAnag]

To be fair rA, you were being pessimistic and doom mongering before a ball had even been kicked. Suggesting that if we'd kept Rosenior Derby would have been promoted last season! You rubbished the signings made before they had even kicked a ball in anger, so basically its a self fulfilling prophecy!

Bookies favourite? So what? It means nothing in reality.

Of course the manager talks up the possibility of promotion, what would you rather have him do, say there is little to no chance this season?

Top 6 is a realistic aspiration as indeed is promotion.

Grounds for optimism? We have lost 1 in 4 games, the right back acquired recently seems the real deal, Nelson and Cashin are forming a partnership, midfield looks much better, we are creating chances, just not converting as many as we should. We are despite not being fully on song, only 3pts off a play off place with a game in hand and there are 35 games left!!

If your expecting pretty football, I would suggest your watching the wrong league!! Teams come to Pride Park to frustrate and niggle and hopefully nick a pt or 3, we will win more than we lose at home.

I actually get to see around 12 games a season home and away, but in the past as a ST holder I've watched many very poor quality games over a season. I ahve no expectation that a little over 12 months after being saved from possible liquidation, which has seen a number of good players and promising youngsters sold that a rebuild of the club is going to be either quick or not have peaks and troughs.

Anyway, cheer up, you could be an Owls fan!!!

Sorry Swale...that first paragraph is a total distortion...complete and utter bollux and not remotely ‘fair’.

I went to Fozzy’s friendly against Stoke, was very impressed by our first half performance and said so.

I have never suggested that if we’d kept Rosenior we’d have been promoted and if you have to invent what I’ve said you’ve clearly lost your argument. What I actually said was that I wondered if replacing Rosenior with Warne had actually benefited us. We were seventh when Warne arrived and we were seventh at the season’s close. The signings who took us to seventh were all Rosenior’s and frankly, in circumstances that were much tougher than the ones we are in twelve months later, I think that was a huge and undervalued achievement.

I didn’t ‘rubbish’ the signings made this season. I doubted Waghorn (so did you) and it was you who were mightily disparaging about Bradley earlier in this debate. I have queried the wisdom of signing four players with dodgy fitness records. Imo it’s one of the first things you look at when considering players...however good they may or may not be, they’re no use if they’re not available or hampered by longer term injury.

The bookies? Tend to know a thing or two. We’ve lost 1 in 4...true...or we’ve got 5/12 from the last four...equally true. Agree about the defence but then we had the fourth or fifth best defence in the league throughout last season so it shouldn’t have really been a priority for addressing.

I have never mentioned ‘pretty football’. Resilience, determination...oh and a few goals...are the way to get out if L1.

[swaledale]

Sorry Swale...that first paragraph is a total distortion...complete and utter bollux and not remotely ‘fair’.

I went to Fozzy’s friendly against Stoke, was very impressed by our first half performance and said so.

I have never suggested that if we’d kept Rosenior we’d have been promoted and if you have to invent what I’ve said you’ve clearly lost your argument. What I actually said was that I wondered if replacing Rosenior with Warne had actually benefited us. We were seventh when Warne arrived and we were seventh at the season’s close. The signings who took us to seventh were all Rosenior’s and frankly, in circumstances that were much tougher than the ones we are in twelve months later, I think that was a huge and undervalued achievement.

I didn’t ‘rubbish’ the signings made this season. I doubted Waghorn (so did you) and it was you who were mightily disparaging about Bradley earlier in this debate. I have queried the wisdom of signing four players with dodgy fitness records. Imo it’s one of the first things you look at when considering players...however good they may or may not be, they’re no use if they’re not available or hampered by longer term injury.

The bookies? Tend to know a thing or two. We’ve lost 1 in 4...true...or we’ve got 5/12 from the last four...equally true. Agree about the defence but then we had the fourth or fifth best defence in the league throughout last season so it shouldn’t have really been a priority for addressing.

I have never mentioned ‘pretty football’. Resilience, determination...oh and a few goals...are the way to get out if L1.

I could go back and provide the posts where you intimated that our "rookie" owner Clowes had perhaps made a mistake in replacing Rosenior given the success he had been at Hull. You also bemoaned the lack of "quality signings" compared to last season!! It was certainly not just a comment about Waghorn! I am only reading what you post and indeed the debate we had over why getting a striker in was an issue, with you saying that paying a fee "shouldn't be an issue" despite you having no knowledge of the financial situation the club was operating under other than saying with bigger attendances and selling players it MUST enable money to be spent!!

yes I wasn't keen on Waghorn as our main striker and I've only passed comment on Bradley after his less than auspicious start with the club, but your comments were in August!!

"we had the fourth or fifth best defence in the league throughout last season so it shouldn’t have really been a priority for addressing."

Did you think before typing this? We had no recognised right back, the left back had gone and which out of Davis, Chester and Stearman do you think weren't defenders?

In an ideal world one wouldn't sign a player with a dodgy fitness record, though I guess there is a judgement here, does one injury if its one but medium term constitute a dodgy fitness record and if so, does that mean good players who get injured should not be signed? plenty of examples of players who have successfully come back from serious injuries, Keogh being just one example.

But its also an example where Derby are recruiting under constraints, although any recruitment is a gamble, plenty of examples of Derby having paid substantial transfer fees for players that have not been a success, got to expect the same with free transfers.

No you didn't mention pretty football, you complained of it being "dire stuff" and having no grounds for optimism!

[MadAmster]

3 games undefeated. 3 clean sheets. 7 points from the last 9 available. Reasons to be cheerful.

Tonight at Blackpool it will prove difficult. They are a point and a place above us and will be buoyed by the confidence of a 0-1 win at Barnsley last Saturday. However, our away form resembles what is our normal home form, which is good BUT the reverse is also true. I'm expecting a hard fought, close game probably ending in a draw.

[ramAnag]

I could go back and provide the posts where you intimated that our "rookie" owner Clowes had perhaps made a mistake in replacing Rosenior given the success he had been at Hull. You also bemoaned the lack of "quality signings" compared to last season!! It was certainly not just a comment about Waghorn! I am only reading what you post and indeed the debate we had over why getting a striker in was an issue, with you saying that paying a fee "shouldn't be an issue" despite you having no knowledge of the financial situation the club was operating under other than saying with bigger attendances and selling players it MUST enable money to be spent!!

yes I wasn't keen on Waghorn as our main striker and I've only passed comment on Bradley after his less than auspicious start with the club, but your comments were in August!!

"we had the fourth or fifth best defence in the league throughout last season so it shouldn’t have really been a priority for addressing."

Did you think before typing this? We had no recognised right back, the left back had gone and which out of Davis, Chester and Stearman do you think weren't defenders?

In an ideal world one wouldn't sign a player with a dodgy fitness record, though I guess there is a judgement here, does one injury if its one but medium term constitute a dodgy fitness record and if so, does that mean good players who get injured should not be signed? plenty of examples of players who have successfully come back from serious injuries, Keogh being just one example.

But its also an example where Derby are recruiting under constraints, although any recruitment is a gamble, plenty of examples of Derby having paid substantial transfer fees for players that have not been a success, got to expect the same with free transfers.

No you didn't mention pretty football, you complained of it being "dire stuff" and having no grounds for optimism!

Getting terribly tedious Swale as you change ‘tack’ yet again.

Yes...Clowes was, arguably still is, a ‘rookie’ owner. It’s undeniable but it isn’t a criticism. ‘Rookie’ simply means inexperienced. I have the greatest respect for what he has done and have never criticised him at all but he is inexperienced and that’s a fact.

I did refer to a lack of ‘quality signings’ compared to last year. That isn’t ‘rubbishing’ this summer’s acquisitions but no...I don’t think they’re as impressive or as high quality as our signings in summer ‘22.

Do I think before I type? Have a word with yourself...I’ve explained before...the majority of our defence from last season are still with us. Chester, Stearman and, to a lesser extent, Davies were largely irrelevant...played a handful of games between them. Nelson and Nyambe have been amongst our best additions imo but they were being brought into an area of the team that was already functioning well. It’s midfield and in attack where our problems lie.

There are examples of players coming back from serious injuries...of course there are, although it’s very debatable that Keogh is one. Mobility was one of RK’s greatest attributes and it’s questionable that he’s retained that since the accident however, imo, the point is that signing players with questionable fitness records is false economy eg...as I understand it (and I may be wrong) we are now paying Embleton’s wages for the next three months. Ward being injured is unlucky...Embleton being injured after so long out was bad risk.

I’m glad that you’ve now acknowledged that I’ve never mentioned ‘pretty football’, now...to put my reference to ‘dire stuff’ in context...I’m afraid that, from the pov of season ticket holders and regulars at PP, our home performances have been exactly that since February. That’s a long time and goes a long way to explain many fans’ current frustrations.

[swaledale]

Getting terribly tedious Swale as you change ‘tack’ yet again.

Yes...Clowes was, arguably still is, a ‘rookie’ owner. It’s undeniable but it isn’t a criticism. ‘Rookie’ simply means inexperienced. I have the greatest respect for what he has done and have never criticised him at all but he is inexperienced and that’s a fact.

I did refer to a lack of ‘quality signings’ compared to last year. That isn’t ‘rubbishing’ this summer’s acquisitions but no...I don’t think they’re as impressive or as high quality as our signings in summer ‘22.

Do I think before I type? Have a word with yourself...I’ve explained before...the majority of our defence from last season are still with us. Chester, Stearman and, to a lesser extent, Davies were largely irrelevant...played a handful of games between them. Nelson and Nyambe have been amongst our best additions imo but they were being brought into an area of the team that was already functioning well. It’s midfield and in attack where our problems lie.

There are examples of players coming back from serious injuries...of course there are, although it’s very debatable that Keogh is one. Mobility was one of RK’s greatest attributes and it’s questionable that he’s retained that since the accident however, imo, the point is that signing players with questionable fitness records is false economy eg...as I understand it (and I may be wrong) we are now paying Embleton’s wages for the next three months. Ward being injured is unlucky...Embleton being injured after so long out was bad risk.

I’m glad that you’ve now acknowledged that I’ve never mentioned ‘pretty football’, now...to put my reference to ‘dire stuff’ in context...I’m afraid that, from the pov of season ticket holders and regulars at PP, our home performances have been exactly that since February. That’s a long time and goes a long way to explain many fans’ current frustrations.

I just read your posts rA, if what you say isn't meant to read as it does then that's you as the post originator's fault, you should be clear, though to be honest you were pretty clear in your assessment and thank you for acknowledging you weren't impressed with the quality of the signings. Though on what you based that assessment on when a ball hadn't been kicked is puzzling.

Your quite clearly inferred that Clowes as a "rookie" owner had made a mistake by replacing Rosenior with Warne and then went onto wax lyrical about Roseniors success at Hull. Yes I know what the term rookie means, but in the context you used it, you were inferring that as Clowes was new to football club ownership he had made a possibly made a mistake. Yet you never once said "rookie" owner Mel Morris has ****ed up!! I mean the term is nonsense, because most of derby's recent owners have not to my knowledge owned a football club before!!

In any case Clowes has a team of people who run the club who are experienced football people, his style seems to be to set the targets (aim for promotion) set the budget and then let the people who know get on with it, no major promises, no grand standing, no criticism of the manager or players, quite refreshing.

As for Keogh he has played 8 games this season for Wycombe and is 37! Mm I'd say that its hardly debatable that he is an example of a player coming back from a serious injury, but maybe you have a different definition?
("we had the fourth or fifth best defence in the league throughout last season so it shouldn’t have really been a priority for addressing."

I'll just repeat this statement made by you, because whilst you accuse me of changing tack, sometimes I think senility might be setting in because this statement simply isn't correct, I mean factually it doesn't stand up! So perhaps you should have a word with yourself??

Cashin, Forsyth Rooney Odurah and Bardell were the defenders left from last season, Odurah and Bardell youngsters and did not play much and have gone out on loan, so according to you those 3 defenders from last season were adequate? I guess we didn't need any full backs or centre backs then - shame your not in charge of recruitment, you'd have spent the whole budget on a striker and relied upon him scoring more goals than we let in!!

OK so we have established that if you were in charge no player who had been injured, even once would be signed, i guess that with a reliance on free transfers and loan signings, the pool of players to recruit from would be even smaller!!

Embleton had a serious injury at the back end of last year, recruiting him on loan, a quality mid field player who we probably wouldn't have got a sniff at if fully fit, was a reasonable move, it didn't work out, but that's football, Derby have signed players for half a million and they have flopped or got injured soon after signing, sometimes one has to take a risk. Yes Derby are paying the agreed wages, they signed a loan contract jeez, one can tell you have never run a business!!

As I stated in my previous post, good loans especially at this level are often going to be players who have had injuries and need game time, sometimes these work out, sometimes they don't but every signing is a risk to a degree.

So we have established, you wouldn't sign a player who had been injured, even on loan and despite what he might be able to bring to the team. I'm sure Derby would value your input on how to build a team on a tight budget in League 1 NOT!


Fans are getting frustrated because a team cobbled together after being weakened through administration isn't storming the league and playing entertaining football! Forget the financial circumstances that restrict plyer recruitment, forget derby haven't been able to offer players contracts that would get them to stay (even if they didn't ahve the opportunity to play at a higher level, forget that many of our youngsters have been sold to pay the bills. This is the second season after basically starting from scratch, sack the manager (and cost more moneywe cant afford) we aren't playing entertaining football and are 3 pts off the play offs.

[ramAnag]

Okay...if we’re just going to play ‘he said...no he said’ and you’re going to deliberately misinterpret what I’ve said and become childishly insulting it’s all rather pointless don’t you agree?

Two examples from above where you are just totally wrong...last year’s defence was principally made up of Wildsmith, Smith, Cashin, Forsyth and Roberts or Sibley. Roberts was a big loss, as I’ve always said. The rest all remain with us although Sibs has obviously been injured. We’ve added Nelson which allows Forsyth to play LB and we’ve decided to play Smith in his more favoured midfield role, a tactic that has been further encouraged by the signing of Nyambe. The only problem we’ve had with the defence seems, imo, to have been generated by us ‘toying’ with three at the back and using Bradley, who has had a poor start, but your comment about our defensive personnel simply isn’t true...five of our six principal defenders from last season remain with us.

Example two...I’ve queried the recent fitness records of 4/5 of our summer signings. It’s absolutely fair comment and demonstrably true. The injuries to Rooney and Ward are bad luck...the unavailability of the others perhaps more predictable. You’ve now turned that into ‘so we have now established that if you were in charge no player who has ever been injured, even once would ever be signed’. I have said nothing of the sort. You know full well I’ve said nothing of the sort but I guess when you’re clutching at straws you’ll make anything up.

Anyway...impossible to argue with someone who specialises so much in ‘deliberate misinterpretation’ so I’m going to leave it there and just hope that we get something from tonight.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Fight, fight, fight.....

[macstheman]

Where's the handbags??