⚽ Match Thread vs. Barrow 07.10.23 [EFL L2]

[SmiffyPie]

No airs and graces at Meadow Lane, and long may it last!

[the_anticlough]

That's a very touchy feely way of saying you think he's the weakest link in the back three and would like to see him replaced. To arrive at this conclusion you must, logically, have made some negative judgements about him (assuming you didn’t pick him out of a hat at random). So why go after other people for making negative judgements about players?

I don't think you follow the team very closely. If you did, you'd know that Brinds was out of the team for an extended period of the run-in and not in the team for the NL play-offs. This season, he's spent more time covering in the central position. Based on his team selections since he took over, for LW there are clear first choices for the other two defensive positions. But right-back is up for grabs basically. There's been a change there every couple of games so far this season. That's why it's natural to assume that if there was a single defensive upgrade in the January window, it'd be in that position. In this scenario, Brinds would duke it out for a place with any newcomer and also at CB, where he's proved himself as well. As a great servant to the club, everyone would be behind him.

What do we need most there? A player whose main strength is getting to attackers quickly and an expert in dispossessing and snuffing things out. Obviously in a LW team he has have to be able to play as well. But with ball-playing defenders in the other two positions, I don't think anyone would complain if the Right-back's main strengths were defensive.

But it's ridiculous to equate speculation about transfer window acquisitions with the kind of relentless, negative slating of certain players that goes on here by a group of posters and in the stands, as others have testified to be the case.

You think we can kum-bay-ah our way to promotion if we just send enough good vibes to the players and gloss over any sloppy play. I disagree and thankfully so does our manager.

Is that what I say and think? Really ? A rhetorical flourish but a figment of your imagination basically.

I suggested to rewatch the game to get a full and true picture of KC's performance over the 90mins. Still applies. As for LW, he's selected Cameron as his captain and first choice left-back at every single opportunity since he took over. So just maybe he knows more than the detractors.

At the risk of repeating myself

- we're committed to playing only 3 defenders
- they have to cover the jobs that 4 or 5 players are tasked to do at other clubs
- there are no other natural defenders in the the rest of the team, although they make a tremendous fist of defending individually and as a team.
- this formula broke records, got us back in the EFL, to the top of L2 and could bag enough wins and points to bounce straight up to L1

In the meantime, the back line we have can look very exposed at times. Onus is put on Brinds, Rawlo, Balders and KC to not only man the fort but also to initiate all of our moves from the back. They've every reason to be really proud of themselves, as AB said a week ago.

[thefulltenyards]

What excellent considered comments and I believe it was worth repeating.

All clubs have and need to have a player to criticise and boo, a section of the fanbase demand it. When times are tough and things are struggle it's easy to have lots and demand a total clearout every season.

Although admittedly slim pickings when you have performed so well for such a long sustained period of time winning so many matches and losing so few but it's natural to want to find one or maybe two players to be highlight and demand them out of the starting eleven or upgraded with an unnamed player. It can look a bit desperate and weak especially when top or near the top of your division but it's what football fans do and will always do.

It's a funny old game..

[matt_magpie]

I don't think you follow the team very closely. If you did, you'd know that Brinds was out of the team for an extended period of the run-in and not in the team for the NL play-offs. This season, he's spent more time covering in the central position. Based on his team selections since he took over, for LW there are clear first choices for the other two defensive positions. But right-back is up for grabs basically. There's been a change there every couple of games so far this season. That's why it's natural to assume that if there was a single defensive upgrade in the January window, it'd be in that position. In this scenario, Brinds would duke it out for a place with any newcomer and also at CB, where he's proved himself as well. As a great servant to the club, everyone would be behind him.

What do we need most there? A player whose main strength is getting to attackers quickly and an expert in dispossessing and snuffing things out. Obviously in a LW team he has have to be able to play as well. But with ball-playing defenders in the other two positions, I don't think anyone would complain if the Right-back's main strengths were defensive.

But it's ridiculous to equate speculation about transfer window acquisitions with the kind of relentless, negative slating of certain players that goes on here by a group of posters and in the stands, as others have testified to be the case.



Is that what I say and think? Really ? A rhetorical flourish but a figment of your imagination basically.

I suggested to rewatch the game to get a full and true picture of KC's performance over the 90mins. Still applies. As for LW, he's selected Cameron as his captain and first choice left-back at every single opportunity since he took over. So just maybe he knows more than the detractors.

At the risk of repeating myself

- we're committed to playing only 3 defenders
- they have to cover the jobs that 4 or 5 players are tasked to do at other clubs
- there are no other natural defenders in the the rest of the team, although they make a tremendous fist of defending individually and as a team.
- this formula broke records, got us back in the EFL, to the top of L2 and could bag enough wins and points to bounce straight up to L1

In the meantime, the back line we have can look very exposed at times. Onus is put on Brinds, Rawlo, Balders and KC to not only man the fort but also to initiate all of our moves from the back. They've every reason to be really proud of themselves, as AB said a week ago.

I totally agree, they are being asked to do a hell of a lot. This isn’t a 352 that’s really a 532, our winbacks can be level with Macca at times and when there’s a transition against us the 3 are under huge pressure. Then have to build attacks and all in a new league, they deserve credit in being brave playing out of trouble and it’s also worth noting LW will be telling them to play out, everyone knows it’s risky and mistakes will happen, well at least most people do.

[SmiffyPie]

In the meantime, the back line we have can look very exposed at times. Onus is put on Brinds, Rawlo, Balders and KC to not only man the fort but also to initiate all of our moves from the back. They've every reason to be really proud of themselves, as AB said a week ago.

I have never really considered the defensive aspects you mention and now have a much greater appreciation of the shift they put in (still going to crit unforced errors though!).

[the_anticlough]

I have never really considered the defensive aspects you mention and now have a much greater appreciation of the shift they put in (still going to crit unforced errors though!).

As is your right to do, Smiffy.
I'm more one to hold off, considering all the other stuff (achievements, responsibilities, the team structure and philosophy). I also wonder what seizing upon mistakes does to the confidence/morale of players we need to feel like the best in their positions, or just winners.

[drillerpie]

I don't think you follow the team very closely. If you did, you'd know that Brinds was out of the team for an extended period of the run-in and not in the team for the NL play-offs. This season, he's spent more time covering in the central position. Based on his team selections since he took over, for LW there are clear first choices for the other two defensive positions. But right-back is up for grabs basically. There's been a change there every couple of games so far this season. That's why it's natural to assume that if there was a single defensive upgrade in the January window, it'd be in that position. In this scenario, Brinds would duke it out for a place with any newcomer and also at CB, where he's proved himself as well. As a great servant to the club, everyone would be behind him.

What do we need most there? A player whose main strength is getting to attackers quickly and an expert in dispossessing and snuffing things out. Obviously in a LW team he has have to be able to play as well. But with ball-playing defenders in the other two positions, I don't think anyone would complain if the Right-back's main strengths were defensive.

But it's ridiculous to equate speculation about transfer window acquisitions with the kind of relentless, negative slating of certain players that goes on here by a group of posters and in the stands, as others have testified to be the case.



Is that what I say and think? Really ? A rhetorical flourish but a figment of your imagination basically.

I suggested to rewatch the game to get a full and true picture of KC's performance over the 90mins. Still applies. As for LW, he's selected Cameron as his captain and first choice left-back at every single opportunity since he took over. So just maybe he knows more than the detractors.

At the risk of repeating myself

- we're committed to playing only 3 defenders
- they have to cover the jobs that 4 or 5 players are tasked to do at other clubs
- there are no other natural defenders in the the rest of the team, although they make a tremendous fist of defending individually and as a team.
- this formula broke records, got us back in the EFL, to the top of L2 and could bag enough wins and points to bounce straight up to L1

In the meantime, the back line we have can look very exposed at times. Onus is put on Brinds, Rawlo, Balders and KC to not only man the fort but also to initiate all of our moves from the back. They've every reason to be really proud of themselves, as AB said a week ago.

They really don't have to cover the work of 4 or 5 players. They have wing backs to help them. We would concede 5 or 10 goals per game if we had 3 centre backs covering the whole width of the pitch. That is nonsense.

When starting attacks they spread wide but they have Palmer or Bostock dropping deep to help them out.

Cameron does not make a tremendous fist of defending individually. He has a lot of qualities but that is not among them.

LW picks Cameron for every game, as would I if I were manager. There's no evidence to say he never criticises him though.

Our system has produced tremendous results, yes. Who exactly is suggesting we go back to playing route one? To me it looks like nobody. Total red herring.

[thefulltenyards]

Hopefully absolutely nobody.

That would be a little strange all things considered. Plus I would suggest we have had more than enough exposure and experience of that style or similar.

Now leaning significantly towards the tiki-taka approach I imagine this has been a blessing for the vast majority of Notts supporters and attracted new supporters.

Even the more old fashioned set in their ways type supporter who felt or even still feels uncomfortable with short passing, pre planned moves, triangles, movement off the ball, maintaining and recycling possession and even going sideways and backwards can't deny the results. That's undeniable. I imagine their stance and viewpoint has changed markedly during Williams/Harley's time in charge.

The current style has produced amazing results to date and as a result attendances are the highest they have been for 30 years. That really says it's all.

We should perhaps thank the likes of Aragonés and Del Bosque for helping to change football.

[the_anticlough]

They really don't have to cover the work of 4 or 5 players. They have wing backs to help them. We would concede 5 or 10 goals per game if we had 3 centre backs covering the whole width of the pitch. That is nonsense.

Oh dear, oh dear....back again (as King Charles said to Liz Truss )

Here's the key...The Reedtz brothers arrived pledging attacking and entertaining football. The amazing thing is that they actually meant it!

[traditionally, that declaration is the football equivalent of a UK PM saying they'll govern for everyone, Theresa May as the champion of 'the just about managing'. Most new owners and managers tend to promise attacking and entertaining and then proceed to serve up exactly the opposite]

NA and IB didn't quite have the courage to implement the Reedtz vision (i.e. Kelly-Evans playing in place of Nemane, Turner as NA's first LCB when he had Chicksen), but under LW we've seen...

- a 3-2-4-1 formation, practically
- the high line and press
- positive team selection that sees Jones, Nemane, Austin in the wide slots. Midfielders who are technical rather than physical

Everyone can see that this iteration of Notts is different to what went before. We've really gone for it.

The opposite might be a solid 4-4-2 or a 5-3-1-1 we've seen under Curle, Derry etc. In these cases the front men are isolated, their shot and scoring rates suffer. Without support, front men can look very ordinary and the moaners might start on them.

Well this applies in reverse with attacking approaches. defenders can be left exposed and isolated. There just aren't the numbers or structure you'd have with 2 banks of 4 for example. In the defensive approach, pass up to a lone attacker who's easily dispossessed is a display of losing football. But a counter-attack in space against the last of our back-line is just another display of winning football. This is because winning teams mostly attack and losing teams mostly defend. As a general rule, set yourself up to mostly defend and you'll mostly lose and vice versa.

Kudos to everyone at the club for its determination to implement positive, entertaining football. You might think the biggest reward has been the results, but it's probably the doubling ofthe gate instead. Although it's measured and possession-based, I don't think we've seen a more attack-minded approach, in terms of selection and formation, not even under Moniz or all those years back under Wilko.

It's radical and it does look unfamiliar and different to what we've seen before. Some fans seem to be freaked out by how exposed and shaky at the back we can look as we're trying to play out or dominate and pin teams back. This is probably the source of all the moaning about our defenders. Hopefully the negative noise at selected targets will be drowned out by the thousands who turn up now to watch entertaining, attacking football.

LW picks Cameron for every game, as would I if I were manager. There's no evidence to say he never criticises him though.

Our system has produced tremendous results, yes. Who exactly is suggesting we go back to playing route one? To me it looks like nobody. Total red herring.

Who said anything about LW criticising or not criticising the captain?

'no evidence to say he never criticises him' what kind of contortion is that?

And where did 'route 1' come from? The red herrings seem to be all yours.

[durhampie]

Oh dear, oh dear....back again (as King Charles said to Liz Truss )

Here's the key...The Reedtz brothers arrived pledging attacking and entertaining football. The amazing thing is that they actually meant it!

[traditionally, that declaration is the football equivalent of a UK PM saying they'll govern for everyone, Theresa May as the champion of 'the just about managing'. Most new owners and managers tend to promise attacking and entertaining and then proceed to serve up exactly the opposite]

NA and IB didn't quite have the courage to implement the Reedtz vision (i.e. Kelly-Evans playing in place of Nemane, Turner as NA's first LCB when he had Chicksen), but under LW we've seen...

- a 3-2-4-1 formation, practically
- the high line and press
- positive team selection that sees Jones, Nemane, Austin in the wide slots. Midfielders who are technical rather than physical

Everyone can see that this iteration of Notts is different to what went before. We've really gone for it.

The opposite might be a solid 4-4-2 or a 5-3-1-1 we've seen under Curle, Derry etc. In these cases the front men are isolated, their shot and scoring rates suffer. Without support, front men can look very ordinary and the moaners might start on them.

Well this applies in reverse with attacking approaches. defenders can be left exposed and isolated. There just aren't the numbers or structure you'd have with 2 banks of 4 for example. In the defensive approach, pass up to a lone attacker who's easily dispossessed is a display of losing football. But a counter-attack in space against the last of our back-line is just another display of winning football. This is because winning teams mostly attack and losing teams mostly defend. As a general rule, set yourself up to mostly defend and you'll mostly lose and vice versa.

Kudos to everyone at the club for its determination to implement positive, entertaining football. You might think the biggest reward has been the results, but it's probably the doubling ofthe gate instead. Although it's measured and possession-based, I don't think we've seen a more attack-minded approach, in terms of selection and formation, not even under Moniz or all those years back under Wilko.

It's radical and it does look unfamiliar and different to what we've seen before. Some fans seem to be freaked out by how exposed and shaky at the back we can look as we're trying to play out or dominate and pin teams back. This is probably the source of all the moaning about our defenders. Hopefully the negative noise at selected targets will be drowned out by the thousands who turn up now to watch entertaining, attacking football.



Who said anything about LW criticising or not criticising the captain?

'no evidence to say he never criticises him' what kind of contortion is that?

And where did 'route 1' come from? The red herrings seem to be all yours.

I would have Kelly Evans any day of the week over Nemane. At least he could tackle and didnt get knocked off the ball with a puff of wind...