Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Andy…it was you who first criticised the thread for developing into the ‘usual Islam bitchfest’…I was merely running with it.

I hadn’t for one moment thought you were ‘picking on me personally’.

That’s ok then, you were just a victim of good grammatical structure

[Trickytreesreds]

I bring it up…yes, but it isn’t an answer. As I’ve said before…I have never been someone who has disputed the existence of ‘grooming gangs’, and I have come across that scenario, professionally in Derby, so I do, or did, know what I was talking about.

Are, or were, there a minority of social workers/local council officials reluctant to acknowledge the problems for the reasons you suggest? I believe so…yes.

This doesn’t excuse it but I also, professionally, came across an alarming number of white, locally bred, parents and relatives who were a) complicit in not caring less what there kids were getting up to and b) involved in much more solitary s@xual exploitation of young girls including, on occasions, their own children, nieces and grandchildren.

It’s a particularly unpleasant can of worms Tricky and the biggest difference is that where the grooming gangs take a collective form the more ‘home grown’ exploiters/abusers are more likely to act alone. Doesn’t make a lot of difference to the victim but you can’t demonise one group while ignoring the other.

RA, I am not picking on one type of peado, ahead of anyone.
What I don't like,7
1. is the scale in a small area of racially tagetted white girls only, that should ring alarm bells
2. The girls were ignored despite cries for help
3. The authorites were "scared" to do anything incase cries of "racist" and riots broke out.

That is the crux of it. Ignore a problem or excuse it, only feeds it and it manifests into other things.
Now we have the attacks and attempts to tell schools/ politicians how society will run.

Name me one other "extreme" group at this moment of time, causing such chaos and divisiveness.

Folks are under the impression, that the whole country is one happy family of diversity. It isn't and my views get shouted down for pointing it out. I mentioned Leicester and no one bothered to acknowledge that one.

[Trickytreesreds]

Freedom of speech is fine, but when sections of the general populace swallow the fake news and lies that's pumped out on social media, deliberately spreading stuff that whilst it may have a basis in truth does not stand up to scrutiny then we have a problem.

It was bad enough in Nazi Germany when the propaganda and "hate" stirring didn't have the benefit of the internet and AI. I do fear as to what will happen in both the Uk and US elections, with the ability of foreign actors able to spew out stuff that they know tickles the fancy of people like TTR, who are only to willing to believe stuff that suits their prejudice.

Given its clear that certain sections of the Tory party plus those ****ers at Reform will be creating division and spreading racist and bigoted rants that can only inflame things further.

So what racist and bigotted rants have I mentioned, that cannot be proven by recent actions?

You keep doing your apologistic stance and sweeping it under the carpet.
Meanwhile London burned, whilst SWALE FIDDLED

[ramAnag]

RA, I am not picking on one type of peado, ahead of anyone.
What I don't like,7
1. is the scale in a small area of racially tagetted white girls only, that should ring alarm bells
2. The girls were ignored despite cries for help
3. The authorites were "scared" to do anything incase cries of "racist" and riots broke out.

That is the crux of it. Ignore a problem or excuse it, only feeds it and it manifests into other things.
Now we have the attacks and attempts to tell schools/ politicians how society will run.

Name me one other "extreme" group at this moment of time, causing such chaos and divisiveness.

Folks are under the impression, that the whole country is one happy family of diversity. It isn't and my views get shouted down for pointing it out. I mentioned Leicester and no one bothered to acknowledge that one.

Firstly Tricky, let’s get the terminology right. The s*xual abusers we are speaking of are unlikely to be *****philes. *****philes are those with a s*xual interest in prepubescent children who have never been the target of grooming gangs.
The ‘grooming gangs’, in my experience, are interested in te*nagers. That is NOT me being an apologist for them in any shape or form but the vast majority of victims, again in my experience, are white te*agers from inadequate backgrounds.

Again I am not defending the grooming gangs in any way at all, but they are not alone in their attraction to te*nagers or fascination with ****age promiscuity. The image of the British schoolgirl is a common enough ***ual fantasy in many walks of life including very well to do English ‘gentlemen’ and where cultures are concerned it is possible to see how our own scantily clad ****agers can give out mixed messages compared with the more ‘well concealed’ Muslim counterparts. Again…in no way is that either an apology or a justification…just a clarification.

Name you one other ‘extreme’ group causing such chaos and divisiveness? Anyone on the extreme Right, especially Tommy Robinson and his henchmen, who will try and make political capital and cause social division at the slightest opportunity. You may not be as extreme but, as our resident advocate of right wing opinions, one only has to look at how your return has rapidly turned a General Election thread into something preoccupied with your own personal obsession…Islam.

As for Leicester. The rioting over, superficially at least, a cricket match was stupid, self defeating and unforgivable. It was also quite a long time ago and quite reminiscent of the predominantly white violence that took place at and after a Forest v Leicester football match in, if memory serves, the same year but, in your own words…you never ‘bothered to acknowledge that one’.

P.S. Sorry about the asterisks. There are so many I gave up trying to avoid them.

[Andy_Faber]

Firstly Tricky, let’s get the terminology right. The s*xual abusers we are speaking of are unlikely to be *****philes. *****philes are those with a s*xual interest in prepubescent children who have never been the target of grooming gangs.
The ‘grooming gangs’, in my experience, are interested in te*nagers. That is NOT me being an apologist for them in any shape or form but the vast majority of victims, again in my experience, are white te*agers from inadequate backgrounds.

Again I am not defending the grooming gangs in any way at all, but they are not alone in their attraction to te*nagers or fascination with ****age promiscuity. The image of the British schoolgirl is a common enough ***ual fantasy in many walks of life including very well to do English ‘gentlemen’ and where cultures are concerned it is possible to see how our own scantily clad ****agers can give out mixed messages compared with the more ‘well concealed’ Muslim counterparts. Again…in no way is that either an apology or a justification…just a clarification.

Name you one other ‘extreme’ group causing such chaos and divisiveness? Anyone on the extreme Right, especially Tommy Robinson and his henchmen, who will try and make political capital and cause social division at the slightest opportunity. You may not be as extreme but, as our resident advocate of right wing opinions, one only has to look at how your return has rapidly turned a General Election thread into something preoccupied with your own personal obsession…Islam.

As for Leicester. The rioting over, superficially at least, a cricket match was stupid, self defeating and unforgivable. It was also quite a long time ago and quite reminiscent of the predominantly white violence that took place at and after a Forest v Leicester football match in, if memory serves, the same year but, in your own words…you never ‘bothered to acknowledge that one’.

P.S. Sorry about the asterisks. There are so many I gave up trying to avoid them.

I'm amazed at that second paragraph rA, full of prejudice, lack of awareness and unfounded assertions. You've obviously not been in Nottingham on a saturday eve recently. And what is 'our own' supposed to mean? Bizarre.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'm amazed at that second paragraph rA, full of prejudice, lack of awareness and unfounded assertions. You've obviously not been in Nottingham on a saturday eve recently. And what is 'our own' supposed to mean? Bizarre.

It looks very like the good old "they're asking for it, ****ty white trash" defence to me?

[Trickytreesreds]

Firstly Tricky, let’s get the terminology right. The s*xual abusers we are speaking of are unlikely to be *****philes. *****philes are those with a s*xual interest in prepubescent children who have never been the target of grooming gangs.
The ‘grooming gangs’, in my experience, are interested in te*nagers. That is NOT me being an apologist for them in any shape or form but the vast majority of victims, again in my experience, are white te*agers from inadequate backgrounds.

Again I am not defending the grooming gangs in any way at all, but they are not alone in their attraction to te*nagers or fascination with ****age promiscuity. The image of the British schoolgirl is a common enough ***ual fantasy in many walks of life including very well to do English ‘gentlemen’ and where cultures are concerned it is possible to see how our own scantily clad ****agers can give out mixed messages compared with the more ‘well concealed’ Muslim counterparts. Again…in no way is that either an apology or a justification…just a clarification.

Name you one other ‘extreme’ group causing such chaos and divisiveness? Anyone on the extreme Right, especially Tommy Robinson and his henchmen, who will try and make political capital and cause social division at the slightest opportunity. You may not be as extreme but, as our resident advocate of right wing opinions, one only has to look at how your return has rapidly turned a General Election thread into something preoccupied with your own personal obsession…Islam.

As for Leicester. The rioting over, superficially at least, a cricket match was stupid, self defeating and unforgivable. It was also quite a long time ago and quite reminiscent of the predominantly white violence that took place at and after a Forest v Leicester football match in, if memory serves, the same year but, in your own words…you never ‘bothered to acknowledge that one’.

P.S. Sorry about the asterisks. There are so many I gave up trying to avoid them.

Terminology, mmmmmmmmmmm.
ok, depends on the person and which country you are in I suppose.
Me personally, anyone above a certain age, that interferes with a "child " under the age of consent is a peado.

In Western societies, a diagnosis of a pedophilic disorder requires that the person be 16 years old or older and at least 5 years older than the child who is the object of the ***ual fantasies or activity.
That's quoted definition from Wiki,

Secondly, I am astonished at your description of a British schoolgirl, as though it was an excuse for the abuse they received. Many of those kids, were vulnerable from broken homes or in care. In fact, your description was borderline disgusting. No Muslim/ or other ethnicitys targetted, just white girls
I can counter your example, with the reverse, of the men of mainly Pakistani rogin, whose country where it is illegal to have *** before marriage, though girls of 14 CAN BE MARRIED OFF. SO THEY COME HERE AND TREAT THE PLACE LIKE A SWEET SHOP.
Not forgetting, their religion, actually endorses child marriage, where the Prophet thought a girl of 6 would make a nice wife. Though to be fair, he did wait until she was 9 before ***. Then you expect Muslim men to have a conscience with the UK age of consent?

if your children or grand children, want to walk about in a mini skirt and tight top, they can. It is the UK and we have laws to protect them. Never say that to me again about mixed messages. Rape and abuse, with drink and drugs is disgusting.

You mention Tomy Robinson and his henchmen. Exactly who have threatened/killed/ targeted with actual racial abuse? All of which are crimes. They may not be my cup of tea, but they have the right to criticse Islam an its ways, the above being a prime example.
Call it divisive as much as you want, but silence of saying nothing, is divisive as well, As abuse and crimes carry on unabated.

LOL, you simplify the Leicester week long riots, as a cricket match fall out? You compare it, to a domestic football match grudge,are you insane?
Have you actually considered, that Muslims and Hindu's actually do HATE each other?
They have history of hate going back a long way and now that they are no longer in India and Pakistan, that hate has simply vanished?

I've news my friend. It hasn;t . I have seen it first hand in factories I have worked in/ visted. Where segregation is the only way round it.
When India was partitioned, anywhere up to 2 million Hindu's/Sikhs/Muslims were slaughtered and butchered.

Yet, come to Britian, we are all one big happy family, forget about it.

[ramAnag]

It looks very like the good old "they're asking for it, ****ty white trash" defence to me?

Well it does if you want to interpret it that way but that most certainly wasn’t my intention.

I genuinely have no idea what is prejudicial, inaccurate or unfounded, Andy. I’m not defending, I’m simply offering a degree of explanation for what is happening. Please explain your indignation. ‘Our own’? Not the best choice of words I’ll concede but in this instance…those ****agers belonging to the dominant white ‘culture’.

[ramAnag]

Terminology, mmmmmmmmmmm.
ok, depends on the person and which country you are in I suppose.
Me personally, anyone above a certain age, that interferes with a "child " under the age of consent is a peado.

In Western societies, a diagnosis of a pedophilic disorder requires that the person be 16 years old or older and at least 5 years older than the child who is the object of the ***ual fantasies or activity.
That's quoted definition from Wiki,

Secondly, I am astonished at your description of a British schoolgirl, as though it was an excuse for the abuse they received. Many of those kids, were vulnerable from broken homes or in care. In fact, your description was borderline disgusting. No Muslim/ or other ethnicitys targetted, just white girls
I can counter your example, with the reverse, of the men of mainly Pakistani rogin, whose country where it is illegal to have *** before marriage, though girls of 14 CAN BE MARRIED OFF. SO THEY COME HERE AND TREAT THE PLACE LIKE A SWEET SHOP.
Not forgetting, their religion, actually endorses child marriage, where the Prophet thought a girl of 6 would make a nice wife. Though to be fair, he did wait until she was 9 before ***. Then you expect Muslim men to have a conscience with the UK age of consent?

if your children or grand children, want to walk about in a mini skirt and tight top, they can. It is the UK and we have laws to protect them. Never say that to me again about mixed messages. Rape and abuse, with drink and drugs is disgusting.

You mention Tomy Robinson and his henchmen. Exactly who have threatened/killed/ targeted with actual racial abuse? All of which are crimes. They may not be my cup of tea, but they have the right to criticse Islam an its ways, the above being a prime example.
Call it divisive as much as you want, but silence of saying nothing, is divisive as well, As abuse and crimes carry on unabated.

LOL, you simplify the Leicester week long riots, as a cricket match fall out? You compare it, to a domestic football match grudge,are you insane?
Have you actually considered, that Muslims and Hindu's actually do HATE each other?
They have history of hate going back a long way and now that they are no longer in India and Pakistan, that hate has simply vanished?

I've news my friend. It hasn;t . I have seen it first hand in factories I have worked in/ visted. Where segregation is the only way round it.
When India was partitioned, anywhere up to 2 million Hindu's/Sikhs/Muslims were slaughtered and butchered.

Yet, come to Britian, we are all one big happy family, forget about it.

I’ve never come across that definition of a *****phile, Tricky. I’ve always understood it to be, as the word suggests, a ***ual obsession with young (prepubescent) children, so we’ll have to differ there.

Neither have I offered a ‘description of a British schoolgirl’ and I’ve made it clear that I am not defending or excusing the grooming gangs/ abusers. I’ve simply tried to provide a context and some degree of explanation, NOT justification.
The girls I worked with, quite some time ago, were universally white and from poor backgrounds. They were undeniably victims but they weren’t entirely innocent and neither were their parents. As I say…that isn’t defending what happens but it is providing a context.

IN MY EXPERIENCE, and having been a child protection coordinator I do have some, there is little to choose between the cultures as far as ***ual abuse is concerned. I have taken part in scores of meetings involving white children who have been abused by family members, usually parents, uncles or grandparents. Equally I have taken part in not quite so many meetings where organised ***ual abuse by Muslim groups has been the subject. Unfortunately the girls concerned in the second scenario were often (not always) complicit in activities which they initially thought of as a ‘laugh’ and a source of income. I’m sorry if that offends anyone’s sensibilities but it is my experience. It isn’t a defence but I’m not going to apologise for saying what I witnessed.

As regards your comments about ‘mini skirts and tight tops’. You’re right of course…girls and women should be free to dress as they wish, however as a parent of a daughter and someone with four female granddaughters I fear that in the real world you are being a tad idealistic. Just as any responsible parent or grandparent would provide advice about where is safe, what time they should be in, what dangers they should look out for so we sometimes have to provide advice about behaviours including modes of dress. In an imperfect world what may be safe in some situations and company might be foolish and dangerous in others.

Beyond that, the ***ualisation of children by the fashion industry and certain types of parent is something I find quite alarming. I don’t say that as any kind of prude, far from it, but I can see how that can be a source of cultural confusion. Again not an excuse for those of any creed or colour who seek to exploit children/young people.

We won’t agree about TR and his ilk. I despise them, you support or at least sympathise with them. You asked for an example of another divisive group other than Muslims…I provided one…and I’ve never suggested that Britain is ‘one big happy family’ - again far from it but we used to live in a country that, sixty odd years ago, openly compared Black and Irish people to dogs and where, rather more recently, idiots threw bananas at black footballers. Thankfully we’ve moved on, although there might be many Muslims who wonder whether that actually is the case.

[swaledale]

Terminology, mmmmmmmmmmm.
ok, depends on the person and which country you are in I suppose.
Me personally, anyone above a certain age, that interferes with a "child " under the age of consent is a peado.

In Western societies, a diagnosis of a pedophilic disorder requires that the person be 16 years old or older and at least 5 years older than the child who is the object of the ***ual fantasies or activity.
That's quoted definition from Wiki,

Secondly, I am astonished at your description of a British schoolgirl, as though it was an excuse for the abuse they received. Many of those kids, were vulnerable from broken homes or in care. In fact, your description was borderline disgusting. No Muslim/ or other ethnicitys targetted, just white girls
I can counter your example, with the reverse, of the men of mainly Pakistani rogin, whose country where it is illegal to have *** before marriage, though girls of 14 CAN BE MARRIED OFF. SO THEY COME HERE AND TREAT THE PLACE LIKE A SWEET SHOP.
Not forgetting, their religion, actually endorses child marriage, where the Prophet thought a girl of 6 would make a nice wife. Though to be fair, he did wait until she was 9 before ***. Then you expect Muslim men to have a conscience with the UK age of consent?

if your children or grand children, want to walk about in a mini skirt and tight top, they can. It is the UK and we have laws to protect them. Never say that to me again about mixed messages. Rape and abuse, with drink and drugs is disgusting.

You mention Tomy Robinson and his henchmen. Exactly who have threatened/killed/ targeted with actual racial abuse? All of which are crimes. They may not be my cup of tea, but they have the right to criticse Islam an its ways, the above being a prime example.
Call it divisive as much as you want, but silence of saying nothing, is divisive as well, As abuse and crimes carry on unabated.

LOL, you simplify the Leicester week long riots, as a cricket match fall out? You compare it, to a domestic football match grudge,are you insane?
Have you actually considered, that Muslims and Hindu's actually do HATE each other?
They have history of hate going back a long way and now that they are no longer in India and Pakistan, that hate has simply vanished?

I've news my friend. It hasn;t . I have seen it first hand in factories I have worked in/ visted. Where segregation is the only way round it.
When India was partitioned, anywhere up to 2 million Hindu's/Sikhs/Muslims were slaughtered and butchered.

Yet, come to Britian, we are all one big happy family, forget about it.

Fascinating that our resident Forum racist and xenophobe should prove to have an in depth knowledge of *****philia? Perhaps you should be careful before you reveal too much about your other obsession?