O/T:- Forest Crying (Again)

[jackal2]

I honestly thought that releasing a statement more or less accusing the Prem of being anti Forest was a stupid thing to do but having just heard that their appeal against the 4 point deduction is being heard today I now wonder if it wasn't all a ploy to heap pressure on the authorities, a risky game that could work either way if so. My guess would be halving the deduction & a fine & final warning for the statement. COYP

Possibly!

Putting aside the fact that it's Forest, I think any team that has been the subject of so many clearly wrong calls this season (even with VAR assistance) would be entitled to consider 'nuclear option' responses, even it the tweet itself was emotional.

VAR is simply a review tool that gives officials a second chance to get decisions right, and yes there are now far more correct decisions than before VAR, but the fact that they are still making so many laughable mistakes is a reflection on the poor quality of the officials themselves, not on the VAR system. VAR has simply confirmed what many fans already knew - we have a multi-billion game still overseen by amateur (standard) officials and administrators.

Following the investigation I'm waiting for the final delicious irony of the football authorities charging Forest/Neco Williams/Santo or whoever with "bringing the game into disrepute". Pot and kettle doesn't come close. If calling out the utter incompetence and hypocrisy of your governing body is "bringing the game into disrepute" then we need far more disrepute!

If the football authorities want to stop the game being brought into disrepute, the best thing they could do is dig an enormous hole in the ground, jump in it, and then ask fans to shovel several tonnes of earth on top. Come to think it, better line the hole first or the escaping toxic chemicals will pollute the watercourse!

[BigFatPie]

Possibly!

Putting aside the fact that it's Forest, I think any team that has been the subject of so many clearly wrong calls this season (even with VAR assistance) would be entitled to consider 'nuclear option' responses, even it the tweet itself was emotional.

VAR is simply a review tool that gives officials a second chance to get decisions right, and yes there are now far more correct decisions than before VAR, but the fact that they are still making so many laughable mistakes is a reflection on the poor quality of the officials themselves, not on the VAR system. VAR has simply confirmed what many fans already knew - we have a multi-billion game still overseen by amateur (standard) officials and administrators.

Following the investigation I'm waiting for the final delicious irony of the football authorities charging Forest/Neco Williams/Santo or whoever with "bringing the game into disrepute". Pot and kettle doesn't come close. If calling out the utter incompetence and hypocrisy of your governing body is "bringing the game into disrepute" then we need far more disrepute!

If the football authorities want to stop the game being brought into disrepute, the best thing they could do is dig an enormous hole in the ground, jump in it, and then ask fans to shovel several tonnes of earth on top. Come to think it, better line the hole first or the escaping toxic chemicals will pollute the watercourse!

They weren’t accusing the officials of making mistakes, they accused an official of deliberately acting against them because he supports one of their rivals in the table. Then a day later realised they’d gone far too far and started massively backsliding.

It’s been Maranakis MO for years in Greece to accuse officials of bias and corruption, usually getting away with it because he’s a more important figure there than he is here. He’s a huge man baby who cries and screams when he doesn’t get want he wants and the biggest mistake the football authorities have made was ever letting him near one of our clubs because it won’t end well.

[Lullapie]

They weren’t accusing the officials of making mistakes, they accused an official of deliberately acting against them because he supports one of their rivals in the table. Then a day later realised they’d gone far too far and started massively backsliding.

You have to be careful not to read into something what isn't being said. Nowhere did the tweet say that. They could have been inferring that Stuart Attwell's judgement could have been clouded by the fact that he is a Luton fan. I'm sure any football fan could understand how that could happen. Really, Attwell should have turned down the position for the game when it was given to him as a conflict of interest.


"Three extremely poor decisions - three penalties not given - which we simply cannot accept.

We warned the PGMOL that the VAR is a Luton fan before the game but they didn’t change him. Our patience has been tested multiple times."


Forest said they 'warned' the PGMOL, who replied by saying that Forest never asked for him to be removed - semantics from the PGMOL there.

[BigFatPie]

You have to be careful not to read into something what isn't being said. Nowhere did the tweet say that. They could have been inferring that Stuart Attwell's judgement could have been clouded by the fact that he is a Luton fan. I'm sure any football fan could understand how that could happen. Really, Attwell should have turned down the position for the game when it was given to him as a conflict of interest.


"Three extremely poor decisions - three penalties not given - which we simply cannot accept.

We warned the PGMOL that the VAR is a Luton fan before the game but they didn’t change him. Our patience has been tested multiple times."


Forest said they 'warned' the PGMOL, who replied by saying that Forest never asked for him to be removed - semantics from the PGMOL there.

Wot? You’re dealing in semantics yourself. Forest’s initial tweet can be easily inferred as suggesting Attwell deliberately didn’t give them penalties because he supports a rival, which is why they pulled back on it the next day. ‘Having his judgment clouded’ is just a different way of saying the same thing.

For Attwell to overturn any of those decisions there had to be a ‘clear and obvious’ error. You could possibly make the case there was in one of those situations but certainly not the other two.

I watched a bit of the Brighton game last night and they had a penalty appeal turned down at 1-0 which was at least as clear as those Forest decisions. I’m yet to see any fuss about it but then they aren’t owned by a temperamental shipping magnate possibly about to lose millions because he’s bought a load of crap players.

[Togtastic]

Wot? You’re dealing in semantics yourself. Forest’s initial tweet can be easily inferred as suggesting Attwell deliberately didn’t give them penalties because he supports a rival, which is why they pulled back on it the next day. ‘Having his judgment clouded’ is just a different way of saying the same thing.

For Attwell to overturn any of those decisions there had to be a ‘clear and obvious’ error. You could possibly make the case there was in one of those situations but certainly not the other two.

I watched a bit of the Brighton game last night and they had a penalty appeal turned down at 1-0 which was at least as clear as those Forest decisions. I’m yet to see any fuss about it but then they aren’t owned by a temperamental shipping magnate possibly about to lose millions because he’s bought a load of crap players.

But we musn't forget that Brighton were playing the 'untouchable' Manchester City.

[Elite_Pie]

VAR is simply a review tool that gives officials a second chance to get decisions right.!

It’s nowhere near that simple, VAR is a tool that’s sucking the life out of the game. It’s killing it to the extent that if it ever appeared at our level I would seriously consider calling it a day. Refereeing errors have been part and parcel of the game since the first ball was kicked, but they are honest errors. The margins are very fine and you need lines on a computer screen to decide, and even then it’s not always conclusive. It completely ruins the spontaneity that makes the game special.

And I said exactly the same after we were robbed against Coventry.

[jackal2]

It’s nowhere near that simple, VAR is a tool that’s sucking the life out of the game. It’s killing it to the extent that if it ever appeared at our level I would seriously consider calling it a day. Refereeing errors have been part and parcel of the game since the first ball was kicked, but they are honest errors. The margins are very fine and you need lines on a computer screen to decide, and even then it’s not always conclusive. It completely ruins the spontaneity that makes the game special.

And I said exactly the same after we were robbed against Coventry.

It's an opinion I hear and understand, but since the first ball was kicked the game has become ever more commercial. Today football's a multi-billion pound industry where one wrong decision could in effect cost a club millions (say like Chesterfield being robbed of an FA Cup Final appearance in 1997), or a mistake dictating promotion/relegation in a final day 'decider'.

Align those 'stakes' with constant evolution of technology and it's inevitable - I believe anyway - that the use of that technology to minimise mistakes will only grow over time. The VAR genie won't be put back in the bottle, in fact more such technology will probably follow on. the only reason we don't see it at our level - yet - is the cost of installing and operating it, but I'm sure it will only be a matter of time.

[1955pie]

It's an opinion I hear and understand, but since the first ball was kicked the game has become ever more commercial. Today football's a multi-billion pound industry where one wrong decision could in effect cost a club millions (say like Chesterfield being robbed of an FA Cup Final appearance in 1997), or a mistake dictating promotion/relegation in a final day 'decider'.

Align those 'stakes' with constant evolution of technology and it's inevitable - I believe anyway - that the use of that technology to minimise mistakes will only grow over time. The VAR genie won't be put back in the bottle, in fact more such technology will probably follow on. the only reason we don't see it at our level - yet - is the cost of installing and operating it, but I'm sure it will only be a matter of time.

Yes one wrong decision can cost a club millions but another club benefits by those millions. And Yes it may seem unfair at times but that only adds to the excitement and spontaneity.
Remember in the long run, what goes around comes around.
They could start by taking VAR away from offside decisions.

[1955pie]

It's an opinion I hear and understand, but since the first ball was kicked the game has become ever more commercial. Today football's a multi-billion pound industry where one wrong decision could in effect cost a club millions (say like Chesterfield being robbed of an FA Cup Final appearance in 1997), or a mistake dictating promotion/relegation in a final day 'decider'.

Align those 'stakes' with constant evolution of technology and it's inevitable - I believe anyway - that the use of that technology to minimise mistakes will only grow over time. The VAR genie won't be put back in the bottle, in fact more such technology will probably follow on. the only reason we don't see it at our level - yet - is the cost of installing and operating it, but I'm sure it will only be a matter of time.

Yes one wrong decision can cost a club millions but another club benefits by those millions. And Yes it may seem unfair at times but that only adds to the excitement and spontaneity.
Remember in the long run, what goes around comes around.
They could start by taking VAR away from offside decisions.

[1955pie]

Sorry about the duplication folks. No idea how that happened.