O/T:- Election

[Lullapie]

Interesting. I've wrestled with the 'taxation is theft' idea myself. I mean, it's obviously true - try not paying it and see what happens. It's the very definition of extorsion, assuming you don't want to pay it. But whether or not society can function without taxation and what the consequences would be is another matter, so perhaps it's the lesser of two evils. I read one of Rothbard's books, where he claimed that charity should be sufficient to help those in need, but I wasn't convinced.

I've definitely become more libertarian over the years, at least in some ways, and especially since COVID. It's interesting what Milei has done in Argentina, stripping away the more pointless government departments, resulting in the country's first budget surplus in over a decade. The long-term impact of all those spending cuts remains to be seen though.

In the UK, there's really no libertarian option to the right of centre. The Green Party are fairly libetarian in some ways, but obviously very much left wing.

Great post Slack Pie. The misconception with many is that a libertarian is left wing. It’s only when you go right around the political spectrum via the left to Anarchism that left wing libertarianism comes into play. Right wing doctrines are more comfortable with freedom of choice. I know people will talk about loonie evangelists who want to ban abortion etc. etc., but genuine right wing politics, until you get round to National Socialism, is quite laissez-faire. The Green Party in New Zealand is the least libertarian party in the country.

Back to taxation. I’m comfortable with VAT being the only form of taxation. It’s the easiest to collect and you only pay when you spend.

[slack_pie]

Back to taxation. I’m comfortable with VAT being the only form of taxation. It’s the easiest to collect and you only pay when you spend.

What would society look like if we abandoned all other forms of taxation though? What public services would you cut funding to or privatise? How would you ensure that those in society who genuinely need support get it? Would you abolish the welfare state altogether?

I agree that there are just too many ways to get taxed. You get taxed when you earn, taxed when you spend, taxed when you sell. If you decide to do nothing, you get "taxed" thought inflation as a result of more government incompetence. There has to be a better way, but it cannot be at the expense of those who cannot support themselves.

[Lullapie]

What would society look like if we abandoned all other forms of taxation though? What public services would you cut funding to or privatise? How would you ensure that those in society who genuinely need support get it? Would you abolish the welfare state altogether?

I agree that there are just too many ways to get taxed. You get taxed when you earn, taxed when you spend, taxed when you sell. If you decide to do nothing, you get "taxed" thought inflation as a result of more government incompetence. There has to be a better way, but it cannot be at the expense of those who cannot support themselves.

It would be a monumental shift to move to that and of course, it's probably more theory than practice.

The introduction of the Welfare State starting in 1945 was revolutionary (not in the Lenin sense) and has been mimicked by many countries throughout the world ever since. The trouble is, it has been abused. Similar to the union movement. Unions were ***** in the early days to help those that didn't have a voice and the mass mobilisation they organised benefit everybody below the super rich.

However absolute power brings greed and corruption. Over the years, the Welfare State has been seen by many as a gravy train. I don't just mean those that receive it, but just as much, those that administer it. It has got to the stage where people become experts in what they can claim. What they are 'entitled' to. All this to the detriment of those that really need it.

There would need to be a reset and I believe Britain is far too gone to be able to do that without a massive overthrow of the establishment. It was heading towards that with Brexit, but the establishment managed to rein everything back in again.

I'm not fully anti-taxation, but what I believe is fair taxation - like I mentioned before VAT (or GST as they call it where I live). You only pay, as you spend.