Ot labour will get in

[UlleyMiller]

"Most reasonable people don't endorse Enoch Powell, deny climate change, carry a deep-rooted dislike of people because of their origins"


But how do you know this? How can you speak for others?

Or is being reasonable just something that fits your view?

Because I live in an area where decent reasonable people live, and have spent decades working around people who are hard working, decent, and hold reasonably balanced views. I've yet to hear an endorsement for Enoch Powell or anyone denying climate change. I'm comfortable applying that degree of life experience to my comment.

[UlleyMiller]

Like him or loathe him,Trump is a disrupter.The political class in the US is as hugely ingrained as it is here. Careerist politicians are not good.

I couldn't think of a person outside Russia who could be closer to instigating a widescale nuclear war than Trump. I see no net positive impact to his involvement in politics.

[KerrAvon]

Farage is a disrupter and disruption in politics is a good thing we need more of it to address the the failure of a two party system that enables a professional political class to be bred by external organisations to push an agenda that does not benefit the people. This is not just a UK problem it can be seen everywhere just look at the recent Mexican elections as an example of corruption within the overall system.

It’s a matter of opinion at the end of the day, but in my books, Farage is only a disrupter in the sense that he is an utterly self-serving individual who is willing to play on the unhappiness of some people to further his desire to have his ego massaged.

[KerrAvon]

I couldn't think of a person outside Russia who could be closer to instigating a widescale nuclear war than Trump. I see no net positive impact to his involvement in politics.

I completelyagree. He has driven polarisation and division in American society, made America an untrusted laughing stock to much of the world and has advanced the interests of the political classes and of the already wealthy at the expense of the American working man and woman.

But hey, he said he’d build a wall and lock up a political opponent so he must be hell of a guy.

[flourbasher]

After calling him the rocket man, D trump was the only person who actually went to massage the ego of the North Korean leader
At that time a finger appeared to be twitching towards the button in the far east
Whilst he’s still visible now and again we don’t appear to hear as much gesticulating from him these days

Strange that isn’t it
There’s more than one way to maintain the peace of which other recent American Presidents would do well to observe and perhaps learn from.

[Derbymiller]

I completelyagree. He has driven polarisation and division in American society, made America an untrusted laughing stock to much of the world and has advanced the interests of the political classes and of the already wealthy at the expense of the American working man and woman.

But hey, he said he’d build a wall and lock up a political opponent so he must be hell of a guy.

I am no supporter of Trump but Biden is a joke, his recent Times interview was a comedy script where he struggled to make a full sentence and randomly made statement that were inaccurate with new made up words. The family have shown themselves to be so corrupt of is beyond a joke that the failing USA judicial hasn't followed through on the evidence against them shows the US is now a banana republic at best. As for Farage your description of him isn't inaccurate but replace the name Farage with any professional politician and your statement would also be correct. It is all about opinion and at the moment we are still allowed to voice ours, but slowly those rights are being taken away by the establishment that doesn't have the authority to remove our rights. Regarding politicians of old there are a few interesting biographies that are worth reading, ones on Gladstone, Lloyd George, Jefferson, Madison and a few more, now nobody is perfect but the world would benefit from people such as these at the moment.

[UlleyMiller]

After calling him the rocket man, D trump was the only person who actually went to massage the ego of the North Korean leader
At that time a finger appeared to be twitching towards the button in the far east
Whilst he’s still visible now and again we don’t appear to hear as much gesticulating from him these days

Strange that isn’t it
There’s more than one way to maintain the peace of which other recent American Presidents would do well to observe and perhaps learn from.

If he pushed the button, the likelihood is that the coastline nearest to him would have received a bit of a splashing.

[mellowmiller]

It’s a fair point as neither Labour nor the Tories are being completely truthful about their positions. Both argue that it is possible to have first class public services with either no general tax increase in the case of Labour or with reduced general taxation with the Tories. Whether those positions are actively dishonest is a moot point, however, as both believe that they can achieve their aims by bucking years of economic history and growing the economy.

Farage’s only plan is to gain power, or probably more specifically, getting into Parliament in order to continue to feed his own ego whilst being funded by the taxpayer, in much the same way as he did as an MEP.

I’m not convinced that Farage believes everything he says – he just says everything that he believes will optimise his chances of being elected. As Ulley points out, key amongst that is the beasting of ‘others’ – initially the EU and now immigrants – because he knows that people will find that more comforting than looking at the UK's own failings.

Populism goes beyond saying what people want to hear, of course. Like Trump, he plays the 'I’m on the idea of the working man against the ‘elites’' card, when they both come from privilege and are prime examples of those ‘elites’.

But hey, Farage likes a pint, so he’s obviously one of us.

In reality he's no worse than the average champagne Socialists who claim to represent "ordinary people" (whatever they are) while living in the lap of luxury.
Let's face it there are lots of those about.

[LesHiboux]

I would agree that there isn't a huge difference between the the instinctively centrist politicians like Sunak and Starmer, and their equivalent in Blair, Cameron, Major but there are important differences in outcomes, at least coming from the New Labour years which say invenstment in health, falls in waiting lists and community projects like surestart which when gone, those working with young people sorely missed. They aren't huge differences but if Starmer delivers the same small differences that Blair did, when compared to tory equivalents, and based on the dearth of alternatives, I'd go for Starmer. Whether he will deliver even those small achievements is a matter of wait and see, but compared with the conservatives, whom you know already what you're going to get, I'd still go for Labour.

As said earlier, you have the people on the extremes on the left and right that want substantially more, very different types of world views, but that's the problem with being on the fringe, is that you don't get voted in. So we're forever bleating on message boards from the outside.

Yes, but those differences are largely determined by what you inherit. When New Labour came to power in 1997 they inherited the strongest economy in Europe, and a big war chest of money. In their first term they continued Tory monetary policy. When the Tories returned to power in 2010 we were economically in as bad a place as we'd been since the 1920s. Historically, the cycle of British politics has been that the Tories get called in to sort out the economy, which usually means making cuts, then once it's back on track people put Labour back in, and so the cycle continues. What's interesting about this time is that the Labour Party will not have the cash to spend.

The problem with talking about centrism is, who determines what the centre ground is? Whatever it is, it's definitely to the left of where it was 30 years ago, and certainly to the left of where it was 14 years ago. For me, the centre ground is the opinion or working-class people outside of North London and the BBC, and that is certainly to the right of where it currently is. The wealthier you are, the less these liberal policies affect you. The poorer you are, the more they bite.

[ragingpup]

I am no supporter of Trump but Biden is a joke, his recent Times interview was a comedy script where he struggled to make a full sentence and randomly made statement that were inaccurate with new made up words. The family have shown themselves to be so corrupt of is beyond a joke that the failing USA judicial hasn't followed through on the evidence against them shows the US is now a banana republic at best. As for Farage your description of him isn't inaccurate but replace the name Farage with any professional politician and your statement would also be correct. It is all about opinion and at the moment we are still allowed to voice ours, but slowly those rights are being taken away by the establishment that doesn't have the authority to remove our rights. Regarding politicians of old there are a few interesting biographies that are worth reading, ones on Gladstone, Lloyd George, Jefferson, Madison and a few more, now nobody is perfect but the world would benefit from people such as these at the moment.

That's a maybe, but perhaps these former politicians were't scrutinised as much as our current ones, and certainly were't made to play by the ridiculous political dishonest game play that the current lot seem to have to do, simply as not enugh of us are, bottom line, willing to vote for a party that expressedly links good quality services with collectively paying for them.