Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

Ah British Values? Didn't you have to teach them or was the FBV curriculum element introduced after your retirement? Maybe it was just a primary school thing but .....

https://www.nga.org.uk/knowledge-cen...es-in-schools/

.... might help you understand??

Well thanks for trying, GP.
So…they’re…Democracy, Rule of Law, Individual Liberty and Mutual Respect/Tolerance of different faiths and cultures.

I’d have thought they were just the values of common decency and no more identifiable with Britain than with France, Germany, Spain, the USA etc but heh ho.

[Andy_Faber]

I don’t have an argument (and I haven’t made anything up, GP). I’m just trying to understand what you mean. It’s a Farage phrase, but if they’re ‘NOT solely of the British but possibly and probably also of other nations’ then they’re self evidently not ‘British values’ are they?

I’m going to give up after this attempt rA, I can only think you are taking the ****.. a ‘value’ whether personal or collective can be such whether it is unique to the person or collective or is common across other people or collectives. Thus, on a personal level, saying please and thank you at appropriate times is a ‘value’ I have, which is by no means universal but it IS shared by other folk. It is STILL a value.

[Andy_Faber]

Moving on, This evening’s debate proved nothing other than that Mishal Husain isn’t capable of chairing such a group. In particular she didn’t give the Lib Dems or Greens a fair crack IMO.

I also think the Beeb found a stooge that they cut to every time he shook his head at anything Farage said

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well thanks for trying, GP.
So…they’re…Democracy, Rule of Law, Individual Liberty and Mutual Respect/Tolerance of different faiths and cultures.

I’d have thought they were just the values of common decency and no more identifiable with Britain than with France, Germany, Spain, the USA etc but heh ho.

Merely because other countries share the values that doesn't invalidate them as being British.

[ramAnag]

Merely because other countries share the values that doesn't invalidate them as being British.

…and merely because we, or most of us, aim to observe and share them in Britain doesn’t make them ‘British values’.
The four you’ve referred to, plus AF’s more specific respect for the elderly and ex servicemen, are generally observed throughout the Western world and as such it is misleadingly arrogant to regard them as specifically ‘British values’.

[ramAnag]

I’m going to give up after this attempt rA, I can only think you are taking the ****.. a ‘value’ whether personal or collective can be such whether it is unique to the person or collective or is common across other people or collectives. Thus, on a personal level, saying please and thank you at appropriate times is a ‘value’ I have, which is by no means universal but it IS shared by other folk. It is STILL a value.

Lol…I’m not taking the **** at all. I was just trying to clarify what you regard as ‘British values’ but your defensiveness means it’s all become a little pointless. I too have the ‘value’ of always saying please and thank you, indeed I make a point of being able to say those two words, at least, in the language of any country I visit. Not sure what it’s got to do with ‘British values’ though.

Anyway, as you say, moving on…disagree about Mishal Husain…a big improvement on Julie Etchingham imo.
Agree about the Farage ‘head shaker’.
Thought it was better than Tuesday night and that the smaller Party reps came across quite well.
Overall I thought Mordaunt was the big loser…rude, disrespectful and shouty Tory woman with a weird Thatcher like helmet of hair who just repeated Sunak’s already discredited lies…bizarre!
Don’t think Rayner or Farage did themselves any serious benefit or damage but had I been visiting from planet Zog I’d have thought Daisy Cooper, the Green lady and the SNP guy had the most credibility.

[Geoff Parkstone]

…and merely because we, or most of us, aim to observe and share them in Britain doesn’t make them ‘British values’.
The four you’ve referred to, plus AF’s more specific respect for the elderly and ex servicemen, are generally observed throughout the Western world and as such it is misleadingly arrogant to regard them as specifically ‘British values’.

Horse****. You are a DCFC fan. Lots of other people are DCFC fans. That doesn't make you any less of a DCFC fan...

Not uniquely British Values I accept, others may share some or all of them, but nonetheless they are "our" - excepting you - values.

[ramAnag]

Horse****. You are a DCFC fan. Lots of other people are DCFC fans. That doesn't make you any less of a DCFC fan...

Not uniquely British Values I accept, others may share some or all of them, but nonetheless they are "our" - excepting you - values.

Politeness apparently not one of your values then?
No idea why they’re ‘our - excepting me - values’…how on earth do you reach that conclusion?
But to hopefully conclude…you accept they’re not ‘uniquely British values’, so where is the logic in claiming them as ‘our’ or ‘British’ values?
My values, which I’m sure many will share, include kindness, compassion, tolerance, respect for others, fairness and being a supportive member of the community. I accept that I don’t always live up to them…I don’t accept that they can, in any way, be defined by my nationality or as national characteristics.

[Geoff Parkstone]

We shall agree to differ, even though you are wrong 😀 It's semantics. It's clear you do not accept anything positive in being British and seek every opportunity to do it down. Those blokes in boats 80 years ago really did die in vain if all of the next generation share your values.

[ramAnag]

We shall agree to differ, even though you are wrong �� It's semantics. It's clear you do not accept anything positive in being British and seek every opportunity to do it down. Those blokes in boats 80 years ago really did die in vain if all of the next generation share your values.

That’s abject and vacuous nonsense, GP and actually, if I took any notice, quite offensive.
Untypical and unworthy of you, but I challenge and defy you to provide an example of anything I’ve written which is anti British or disrespectful to those who made the ultimate sacrifice on the beaches of Normandy.
You entered the debate late and clearly can’t have followed it closely enough…my one and only point is that the British do not hold some sort of monopoly on the values of decency. That’s not semantics…it’s the simple truth.