Election Year or Fear!

[swaledale]

Are you suggesting a correlation there? That’s a bit Swaleist of you. Of the folk I know who are right leaning there’s a massive educational spread - my brickie left school the earliest day possible with no quals (and I think he’s illiterate) and my next door neighbour is a magistrate and has more law quals than I can recount. Being right-leaning is a valid POV held by a wide range of thoughtful people, despite the picture painted by the media

Being right leaning is a valid POV, being far right and leaning heavily towards xenophobia, racism, and having more than a liking for authoritarian fascist views isn't. I abhor any extreme views, be they left or right, history tends to suggest that political organisations that have either as an ideology tend not to be beneficial to a country or its citizens.

Naturally some can under an outwardly more respectable, less confrontational and less overtly offensive stance, hold views that to those that consider these matters still be rather further right, or racist etc. than the obvious people. The political Far Right have gone a long way to polish their image and appear unthreatening and merely patriotic, white washing away some very extreme and disturbing views as Le pen has done with her neo Nazi party in France and as Meloni has done in Italy.

But in general if it walks like a fascist, talks like a fascist, it generally is one or very close to one.

Only those incapable of looking beyond the façade, or indeed who do not wish to are taken in by these politicians. But Reform/UKIP/Brexit of course has neither the history, ideology nor the organisation behind it, that these established far right parties have. In countries where Fascist sympathisers have never been hard to find and indeed during WW2 wielded real power.

Can't quite see how you work out that its "the media" who claim Reform voters are uneducated, for a start, the BBC, Daily fail even the Torygraph and many others have been cheerleading Farage and his *******s on immigration etc. for years, only panicking when it was obvious they would split the Tory vote. However, I have yet to see interviewed in any media or actually meet one who I would consider to be half sentient. in much the same way I have yet to encounter a Brexiteer who can explain why they voted for Brexit. by that I mean facts, reality not the mythical and utterly false crap they spout.

But if your a thoughtful educated person and you actually think that Reform, a) has any actual practical solutions to the problems faced by the UK today and b) that Farage is someone you could picture as a leader of the Uk, then you might be educated, but your capacity for critical thinking and objectively looking at reality is clearly flawed!

Oh and you do know that one doesn't require any legal qualifications to be a Magistrate? They generally aren't people with more legal qualifications than one can count, but then maybe its your neighbour who is spouting the BS on this occasion.

[Andy_Faber]

Oh and you do know that one doesn't require any legal qualifications to be a Magistrate? They generally aren't people with more legal qualifications than one can count, but then maybe its your neighbour who is spouting the BS on this occasion.

....and that regretably for your credibility is you reverting to type and calling into question any assetion which contradicts your own POV. Note that my post used the word 'and' (...he has qualifications) not 'because' (...he had qualifications). Going back to MA's post, IMO not reading a comment properly before responding is as much a lack of intellect as using 'of' instead of 'have'

[Geoff Parkstone]

...or using have instead have of

[ramAnag]

lol, you clown. How was that flawed?


Your mate has hit his first big hurdle. Sein Fein wants him to carry out his bluff promise and put British soldiers wide open to abuse. Right after hundreds of IRA murderers were let off the hook.
So then, will flip flop fold or buckle?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-star...thern-ireland/
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-star...thern-ireland/

this isn't going to end well

Okay, I know you’re feeling horribly bitter but if you could stop the name calling it’d probably help. So let’s look, objectively, at the flaws that I’m apparently a ‘clown’ for raising.
Last week Labour got 33.7% of the vote and won 63.2% of seats in Parliament.
Reform won 14.3% of the popular vote which gave them just 5 seats. Compare that with the Lib Dem’s who turned 12.2% of the vote into 72 seats and it’s easy to see how our democracy is flawed.
It’s democratically unacceptable even though, on the other side of the coin, if we added up Tory and Reform votes against those of Labour, LibDems and Greens the ‘score’ would have been something like 38% v 52% and the outcome very similar.

I, of course, am delighted by what’s happened…because, this time, I’m on the winning side but, objectively, it’s a nonsense.

You in comparison are all bitter and twisted. Your theories about this being ‘the immigration election’ and the rise of the Right in France have proved nothing more than wishful thinking on your part, but let’s not dwell on the personal.

Fact is our democracy IS deeply flawed. Part of me finds that funny because you and Farage are now so outraged, and yet in 2016 when a binary democratic decision of enormous consequence was made by around just 38% of the electorate you could barely contain your delight and likewise in 2019, when Johnson won a huge majority on the back of just 43.6% of the popular vote you had no fault to find.

More seriously and objectively…the system is flawed. Those flaws have now been thrown into sharp focus by this election but it is no more flawed than in 2016 and 2019. If you want to debate any necessary change then let’s do so…respectfully and sensibly. If you just want to keep chucking names around and your toys out of the pram then I’m not interested. What goes around comes around Tricky, but I agree we do need change even though it will probably lead to 10-12% of parliamentary seats being held by those with far right views that most decent people find reprehensible.

[Andy_Faber]

Okay, I know you’re feeling horribly bitter but if you could stop the name calling it’d probably help. So let’s look, objectively, at the flaws that I’m apparently a ‘clown’ for raising.
Last week Labour got 33.7% of the vote and won 63.2% of seats in Parliament.
Reform won 14.3% of the popular vote which gave them just 5 seats. Compare that with the Lib Dem’s who turned 12.2% of the vote into 72 seats and it’s easy to see how our democracy is flawed.
It’s democratically unacceptable even though, on the other side of the coin, if we added up Tory and Reform votes against those of Labour, LibDems and Greens the ‘score’ would have been something like 38% v 52% and the outcome very similar.

I, of course, am delighted by what’s happened…because, this time, I’m on the winning side but, objectively, it’s a nonsense.

You in comparison are all bitter and twisted. Your theories about this being ‘the immigration election’ and the rise of the Right in France have proved nothing more than wishful thinking on your part, but let’s not dwell on the personal.

Fact is our democracy IS deeply flawed. Part of me finds that funny because you and Farage are now so outraged, and yet in 2016 when a binary democratic decision of enormous consequence was made by around just 38% of the electorate you could barely contain your delight and likewise in 2019, when Johnson won a huge majority on the back of just 43.6% of the popular vote you had no fault to find.

More seriously and objectively…the system is flawed. Those flaws have now been thrown into sharp focus by this election but it is no more flawed than in 2016 and 2019. If you want to debate any necessary change then let’s do so…respectfully and sensibly. If you just want to keep chucking names around and your toys out of the pram then I’m not interested. What goes around comes around Tricky, but I agree we do need change even though it will probably lead to 10-12% of parliamentary seats being held by those with far right views that most decent people find reprehensible.

Good post, says it in a pretty even-handed way

[swaledale]

....and that regretably for your credibility is you reverting to type and calling into question any assetion which contradicts your own POV. Note that my post used the word 'and' (...he has qualifications) not 'because' (...he had qualifications). Going back to MA's post, IMO not reading a comment properly before responding is as much a lack of intellect as using 'of' instead of 'have'

I can see how your attempt to be the reasonable thinking man's racist wobbles, that plus your undoubted tendency to pull out an anecdote, which is so obviously false, is rather funny.

But its not a question of calling into question any assertion that contradicts my POV.

I mean if you say the earth is flat, you have a POV, its not valid and not based on reality, but its a POV.

Its like claiming to follow the Christian faith and being a capitalist, its a POV which millions have, however its not in any way possible IF one has actually read the basic tents of the Christian faith. But then as with all things people, including myself obviously, adjust their POV and beliefs to fit in with what suits them. Its just that with some people (and Tricky is a prime example) adjust the reality to such an extent that its patently clear they aren't dealing with facts or the actual reality any more.

But hey if you think Reform has any ideas worth considering fill your boots, like the poor mugs that voted Farage in in Clacton, it will soon become obvious that as a critic, as a **** stirrer and identifier of problems, Farage is second to none, as a problem solver and practical politician , well no sign so far that he is capable.

Its not possible to have a reasoned debate with people who have no concept of reality, its irksome to talk to people who whilst I suspect aren't totally stupid, insist on making comments that are.

[MadAmster]

Are you suggesting a correlation there? That’s a bit Swaleist of you. Of the folk I know who are right leaning there’s a massive educational spread - my brickie left school the earliest day possible with no quals (and I think he’s illiterate) and my next door neighbour is a magistrate and has more law quals than I can recount. Being right-leaning is a valid POV held by a wide range of thoughtful people, despite the picture painted by the media

Yes. Suggesting a correlation between a whole host of right wing voters and the total lack of understanding of their own language from Could OFs to their/there/they're and your/you're, the use of are when they mean our and a growing number posting "A think so" rather than "I .....". There will be well educated people among them, Farridge for one, but the plethora of ill written rants on social media does beg the question I asked...

[MadAmster]

Farridge and Wilders. IMO, 2 peas from the same pod. Great at sh1tstirring and pointing out there's a problem but absolutely no idea what practical solutions could be implemented...

[Andy_Faber]

I can see how your attempt to be the reasonable thinking man's racist wobbles, that plus your undoubted tendency to pull out an anecdote, which is so obviously false, is rather funny.

But its not a question of calling into question any assertion that contradicts my POV.

I mean if you say the earth is flat, you have a POV, its not valid and not based on reality, but its a POV.

Its like claiming to follow the Christian faith and being a capitalist, its a POV which millions have, however its not in any way possible IF one has actually read the basic tents of the Christian faith. But then as with all things people, including myself obviously, adjust their POV and beliefs to fit in with what suits them. Its just that with some people (and Tricky is a prime example) adjust the reality to such an extent that its patently clear they aren't dealing with facts or the actual reality any more.

But hey if you think Reform has any ideas worth considering fill your boots, like the poor mugs that voted Farage in in Clacton, it will soon become obvious that as a critic, as a **** stirrer and identifier of problems, Farage is second to none, as a problem solver and practical politician , well no sign so far that he is capable.

Its not possible to have a reasoned debate with people who have no concept of reality, its irksome to talk to people who whilst I suspect aren't totally stupid, insist on making comments that are.

All of my anecdotes are factual but I must admit to occasionally relating a story just to annoy you, my frustration being that you’ve told many folk on here to **** off when you’re losing an argument but never myself

[Geoff Parkstone]

Farridge and Wilders. IMO, 2 peas from the same pod. Great at sh1tstirring and pointing out there's a problem but absolutely no idea what practical solutions could be implemented...

That, IMHO, sums up 95% of politicians worldwide, if not more