Quote Originally Posted by Omegstrat6 View Post
Both state pensions and the NHS are no longer "fit for purpose" in terms of being able to now achieve their aims. In both cases this is primarily driven by a change in the country's demographics where we now have a far higher population than we did in 1948 and one with a far higher proportion of people over working age. In addition, since the creation of the NHS there have been massive advancements in medicine whether in drugs or medical procedures which all come at ever increasing costs. With a smaller working age population (including a percentage of which never seen before who are not deemed fit enough to work ) having to support an increasingly older age group, the finances simply do not add up and are unsustainable going forward.

I get that, having worked all their lives and having paid their "stamp" people might expect their full state pension regardless of how well off they are but I think we have to remind ourselves as to the reasons why pensions for "ordinary" working people and the Welfare State were brought into being in the first place-to help provide a safety net for the poorest in society. That, surely, remains the key aim?

Both the state pension and NHS are largely funded through National Insurance. The clue is in the name-insurance. It is to help provide a service for when you need it. We insure our cars, houses, pets-do we expect to get all the money we pay into these back if we haven't made a claim?

I do not subscribe to the Tory lie that if you simply work hard then the financial rewards will be there. Whilst I doubt very much that (unless you come from a monied family with inherited wealth) those who now have a relatively prosperous life style in retirement have not worked hard to achieve it, remember that circumstances can lead to financial changes for all of us. You may be quite well off at one point but by the time you get to retirement age things may be quite different.

Given the unsustainability of the current systems that fund both the State pension and NHS, I can see no other option than a form of means testing in order to be able to continue both. The important thing should be that this is a graded system however to make things as fair as possible. I get that those who have worked hard and are now comfortable will be angry that they may then get a much reduced state pension in order to help fund some who have never worked into their old age but the latter would surely be a minority and current data clearly indicates that those who work in poorly paid jobs are the worst off. I would also, of course, remove the gold plated pensions that the public services get. So many pension schemes have been greatly eroded in the private sector so why should these same tax payers enable the continuation of final salary schemes for public service workers?

As Al says, there is a big difference between wanting and needing. If people are comfortable in their retirement, have paid their mortgage off on a nice house, can afford to run a nice car and have a holiday or two each year thanks to a decent private pension then do they really need the state one on top of this when the money could go towards those in far more need?

Ideally, it would be nice for anyone, regardless of how well off they are, who have paid their wack into NI to get their full state pension back in return but I think that this is simply not financially viable now if the very idea of a state pension can continue.

Good post again. Sadly in life the haves are far greedier than the have nots. Ask a tradesman!

If you are comfortable why would eight hundred quid a month make any difference FFS! Key word - comfortable!