Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

I could say the say the same with the corruptable young minds having to deal with your bonkers "softy, we surrender" attitude.
I learned through an apprenticeship, to know every machine under my jurisdiction, inside and out.
Let me tell you, those 12 levers became second nature, whilst moving back and forwards and probably watching a cutting head at the same time.
So yes, I was being disrespectful, in the fact that a train drivers job has been trumpeted up, beyond belief.
Also, if you have no idea how a modern day jet fighter complexity compares to operating a train, then god help you. Refer back to line 1
Just to help you.
A train driver requires a couple of GCSE's
A pilot minimum, To become an RAF pilot, one requires passing grades in maths, English and at least three other GCSE subjects and at least two A-level results of a Grade C or higher. A fighter pilot? Lets just say a lot more

Lol! I probably deserved your initial retaliation for taking the piss in the first place, but I’ve no idea what my ‘softly we surrender attitude’ means. What/who was I meant to be getting these ‘corruptable young minds’ to ‘surrender’ to?

You were talking about rates of pay and it was actually that which I was referring to when I said I have no idea how they compare.

As regards train drivers…they do seem to me to have a hell of a lot of responsibility for an enormous number of lives which makes me reluctant to refer, as you did, to them as ‘plebs’.
Of course you’re probably correct that the job is becoming increasingly automated however I’d remind you that, on those relatively rare tragic occasions when there is a serious crash, ‘driver error’ seems to be a common first port of call amongst accident investigators.

[swaledale]

Lol! I probably deserved your initial retaliation for taking the piss in the first place, but I’ve no idea what my ‘softly we surrender attitude’ means. What/who was I meant to be getting these ‘corruptable young minds’ to ‘surrender’ to?

You were talking about rates of pay and it was actually that which I was referring to when I said I have no idea how they compare.

As regards train drivers…they do seem to me to have a hell of a lot of responsibility for an enormous number of lives which makes me reluctant to refer, as you did, to them as ‘plebs’.
Of course you’re probably correct that the job is becoming increasingly automated however I’d remind you that, on those relatively rare tragic occasions when there is a serious crash, ‘driver error’ seems to be a common first port of call amongst accident investigators.

RA, Thicky is just parroting what Trice reform **** has been saying on social media, that defending what Farage earns, saying he "works" hard, whilst train drivers don't.

I mean fancy an MP from a private company that supposedly backs the "ordinary working" man, attacking a group of workers? Thicky hasn't a clue what a train drivers job entails (actually he hasn't a clue full stop) and all this talk of salary comparisons just demonstrates how Thicky, a supposed flag bearer for "liberal" capitalism has absolutely no idea about these matters.

If one was going to start attacking ludicrous salaries, I'd have thought professional footballers and especially those in the premier league would be the place to start, I mean how many GCSE's are required to earn £100k plus a week?

If the value and complexity of a job equalled its salary then there are plenty of roles that society depends upon which warrant more than say an investment banker, a TV presenter Journalists and indeed many Managers and CEO's!

Anyway one wonders, if driving a train was that simple for the pay, why Thicky when mining ceased didn't go for it?

[Trickytreesreds]

RA, Thicky is just parroting what Trice reform **** has been saying on social media, that defending what Farage earns, saying he "works" hard, whilst train drivers don't.

I mean fancy an MP from a private company that supposedly backs the "ordinary working" man, attacking a group of workers? Thicky hasn't a clue what a train drivers job entails (actually he hasn't a clue full stop) and all this talk of salary comparisons just demonstrates how Thicky, a supposed flag bearer for "liberal" capitalism has absolutely no idea about these matters.

If one was going to start attacking ludicrous salaries, I'd have thought professional footballers and especially those in the premier league would be the place to start, I mean how many GCSE's are required to earn £100k plus a week?

If the value and complexity of a job equalled its salary then there are plenty of roles that society depends upon which warrant more than say an investment banker, a TV presenter Journalists and indeed many Managers and CEO's!

Anyway one wonders, if driving a train was that simple for the pay, why Thicky when mining ceased didn't go for it?

You have no idea of what my engineering understandings are. You may think, you are the wikipedia of DCM but sorry, you aint.
As an apprentice, I had to become familiar with all sorts of machinery and have driven locomotives on the sidings shunting and locomotives underground. You don't understand the mechanicals of the equipment and their requirements if you cannot operate them. Fixing. rebuilding them was then part of the education. I would definitely pit my wits against yours on that score.

Trains are fully automated in many parts of the world. To put right RA, driver error, does happen. perhaps the refusal of unions, to implement more tech could have prevented this? Cars have become high tech now, yet the driver himself causes the crash, when said tech is not being used.
No one has has thus given it any thought and comparison to what I said, as to how a train driver, warrents the same pay as a modern day fighter pilot at squadren leader 8 level?

Over paid, for a shoddy service, by Union design.

PS have another swig, kick the cat You'll feel better

[ramAnag]

To put right RA, driver error, does happen. perhaps the refusal of unions, to implement more tech could have prevented this? Cars have become high tech now, yet the driver himself causes the crash, when said tech is not being used.

No idea how that ‘puts me right’…and this may come as a surprise, but technology is rarely faultless. It does go wrong.

[Trickytreesreds]

No idea how that ‘puts me right’…and this may come as a surprise, but technology is rarely faultless. It does go wrong.

Not as much as human error. You can build in extra redundant systems to cover anything you want.
So I;ll say again, why does an operator even if needed , needs a pay greater than a fighter pilot?
Which is why trains all over the world are going driverless.

You may not be aware of this, but an airliner can land itself without a pilot doing anything, if they wish. The autopilot isn't just for slow climbs and cruising
Airbus lead the way on this.
A passenger plane can land by itself using the autopilot through a system that is often referred to as ‘autoland’. The pilots can program the autopilot to carry out the landing automatically whilst the pilots carefully supervise the manoeuvre.

[ramAnag]

Not as much as human error. You can build in extra redundant systems to cover anything you want.
So I;ll say again, why does an operator even if needed , needs a pay greater than a fighter pilot?
Which is why trains all over the world are going driverless.

You may not be aware of this, but an airliner can land itself without a pilot doing anything, if they wish. The autopilot isn't just for slow climbs and cruising
Airbus lead the way on this.
A passenger plane can land by itself using the autopilot through a system that is often referred to as ‘autoland’. The pilots can program the autopilot to carry out the landing automatically whilst the pilots carefully supervise the manoeuvre.

I don’t dispute it, Tricky. Raises the question of why you are so dismissive of train drivers, calling them ‘plebs’…but don’t have the same disregard for airline pilots.

I’d also query some of your salary stats, but it’s a fairly futile argument which you’ve obviously just got a bit of a ‘bee in your bonnet’ about.

[swaledale]

Not as much as human error. You can build in extra redundant systems to cover anything you want.
So I;ll say again, why does an operator even if needed , needs a pay greater than a fighter pilot?
Which is why trains all over the world are going driverless.

You may not be aware of this, but an airliner can land itself without a pilot doing anything, if they wish. The autopilot isn't just for slow climbs and cruising
Airbus lead the way on this.
A passenger plane can land by itself using the autopilot through a system that is often referred to as ‘autoland’. The pilots can program the autopilot to carry out the landing automatically whilst the pilots carefully supervise the manoeuvre.

Trains all over the world going driverless eh? So part from metro/tube systems which are self contained and easy to program, and some self contained freight routes or docks and industry. Please come up with examples of driverless passenger trains then.


It is true that planes can take off and land automatically in certain instances, though one should perhaps remember the Air France Airbus that plunged into the sea whilst en route from Buenos Aires whilst on auto pilot!!

But would you or anyone else on here travel by either train or plane that had no human operator? because that is the issue apart from the complexities of trains that operate on non self contained lines where there are passenger trains of varying speeds, freight trains and many conflicting movements.


But great to see your all in favour of a world where AI dominates and there are no jobs for people, perhaps you can explain what happens to society at that point?

[Geoff Parkstone]

That final point is the crux of the matter. If you automate most all jobs and "free mankind from the necessity of work", where does society go? No work = no wage, thus everyone effectively given flat wage / benefit by state from corporate taxes? No entrepreneurs, no incentives. We all become faceless automatons of the state, but with nothing to do. That might appeal to some, but not me.

Work may "enslave people" but no work would enslave them even more. I can't get my head around where AI and automation is taking us. But I don't think I'd like it, but fortunately will be dead soon enough to avoid finding out. Mankind faces a very dystopian future.