OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

God, I do hope not , but given all the circumstances…an odd example from the ‘numerous’ ones you claim there to be.

I knew it would be. Declaring responses from anyone with a different view as ‘odd’, ‘strange’, ‘not really comparable’ (I paraphrased) is a tactic you use frequently and as such I was expecting it.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Somewhat worryingly I find myself in agreement with rA here - not so much in respect of the matter of Brexit but more as a point of principle. We need to constantly reappraise decisions made in the light of changing circumstances, albeit with an over-riding sentiment to not constantly chop and change on a whim.

In business you need to be nimble and react to changing market conditions. Same in the wider issues of politics. Just because we declared war on Germany in 1939 doesn't mean to say we should still hate them now because we did back then (although actually &#128516.

The problem with reversing Brexit is that it stirred up such entrenched positions. rA still cannot resist constantly bringing up the same arguments and expressing such vitriol against the architects of Brexit. I'm sure there are many equally passionate supporters of Leave (although maybe with less bile!). It's the middle ground that has somewhat shifted the balance of opinion and it is dangerous to react based on the views of floating voters.

[ramAnag]

Somewhat worryingly I find myself in agreement with rA here - not so much in respect of the matter of Brexit but more as a point of principle. We need to constantly reappraise decisions made in the light of changing circumstances, albeit with an over-riding sentiment to not constantly chop and change on a whim.

In business you need to be nimble and react to changing market conditions. Same in the wider issues of politics. Just because we declared war on Germany in 1939 doesn't mean to say we should still hate them now because we did back then (although actually ��).

The problem with reversing Brexit is that it stirred up such entrenched positions. rA still cannot resist constantly bringing up the same arguments and expressing such vitriol against the architects of Brexit. I'm sure there are many equally passionate supporters of Leave (although maybe with less bile!). It's the middle ground that has somewhat shifted the balance of opinion and it is dangerous to react based on the views of floating voters.

Don’t think you should be worried, GP…common sense really.

I don’t think I’ve been particularly vitriolic towards the ‘architects of Brexit’ lately…it’s a simple fact that many of them have discredited themselves since 2019. Didn’t need any help from me.

I agree, we certainly do need to ‘constantly reappraise decisions in the light of changing circumstances’. Well put and that’s essentially all there is to it. In many ways I’d love Brexit to have been a huge and successful benefit for our country, but I never believed it would be and I actually don’t know anyone sensible who thinks it’s been anything other than somewhere between a monumental c*ck up and a complete disaster, so a change of direction would be no bad thing, imo.

P.S. Sorry AF…I think we misunderstand each other again.

[Andy_Faber]

Somewhat worryingly I find myself in agreement with rA here - not so much in respect of the matter of Brexit but more as a point of principle. We need to constantly reappraise decisions made in the light of changing circumstances, albeit with an over-riding sentiment to not constantly chop and change on a whim.

In business you need to be nimble and react to changing market conditions. Same in the wider issues of politics. Just because we declared war on Germany in 1939 doesn't mean to say we should still hate them now because we did back then (although actually &#128516.

The problem with reversing Brexit is that it stirred up such entrenched positions. rA still cannot resist constantly bringing up the same arguments and expressing such vitriol against the architects of Brexit. I'm sure there are many equally passionate supporters of Leave (although maybe with less bile!). It's the middle ground that has somewhat shifted the balance of opinion and it is dangerous to react based on the views of floating voters.

Understood but in my experience of business a wholesale reversion to a previous state would never work because the world would have moved on. Starmer, in what he appeared to say yesterday (I didn’t catch his actual speech) that he wants to work towards better relationships with todays EU not that of 2016 (and IMO the less bonkers EU management of 2024 makes improvement more feasible)

[Trickytreesreds]

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articl...since-mid-july

[ramAnag]

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articl...since-mid-july

Sorry…doesn’t closer examination of that just suggest that immigration is hugely important to Reform UK voters, very important to Tory voters and nothing like as important to Labour and Liberal voters?
That’s hardly a surprise and as regards crime…well of course it’s suddenly more important, largely because of the dreadful rioting that went on earlier this month largely as a result of the lies put about by far right activities following the tragic events in Southport.

[ramAnag]

Sorry…doesn’t closer examination of that just suggest that immigration is hugely important to Reform UK voters, very important to Tory voters and nothing like as important to Labour and Liberal voters?
That’s hardly a surprise and as regards crime…well of course it’s suddenly more important, largely because of the dreadful rioting that went on earlier this month largely as a result of the lies put about by far right activities following the tragic events in Southport.

P.S. activists not ‘activities’. Sorry.

[Trickytreesreds]

Sorry…doesn’t closer examination of that just suggest that immigration is hugely important to Reform UK voters, very important to Tory voters and nothing like as important to Labour and Liberal voters?
That’s hardly a surprise and as regards crime…well of course it’s suddenly more important, largely because of the dreadful rioting that went on earlier this month largely as a result of the lies put about by far right activities following the tragic events in Southport.

You mean the Pakistani web developer who started the rumours?
Perhaps, you mean the far right activists involved in knife crime across the country?
Perhaps you mean the far right activists causing mayhem at the Nottinghill carnival? The ones that Kier Stalin ignores whilst concentrating his anger at grannies on face book?

https://fb.watch/ugFidr7rA7/

[ramAnag]

You mean the Pakistani web developer who started the rumours?
Perhaps, you mean the far right activists involved in knife crime across the country?
Perhaps you mean the far right activists causing mayhem at the Nottinghill carnival? The ones that Kier Stalin ignores whilst concentrating his anger at grannies on face book?

https://fb.watch/ugFidr7rA7/

Actually I was thinking more of the Tommy Robinson inspired thugs in masks - and all to frequently wearing Union Jack paraphernalia - and the apparently feral poorly brought up children who indulged in such ‘mischief’ as attacking mosques and police cars and trying to set fire to hotels that they believed might be housing asylum seekers. You know the sort of thing. I mean, week in - week out, you’re part of perpetuating the narrative that causes it.
I’d think about that for a moment…what do such ‘people’ actually think might be the consequences of trying to set alight a building full of people?

[swaledale]

Sounds not unlike your typical coffee shop or caff round me: not a single indigenous Englishthem working there. Seems like locals the world over (based on a sample size of 2!) don't like the work at home but will travel abroad to do it happily 😄

Similar experience when travelling in Scotland recently, where in a part of the country one would think locals would be snapping up jobs in hospitality, majority of staff in hotels and restaurants at all levels from waiters, reception staff to managers etc. were foreign and very good they were to. I suspect part of the answer is that those locals who get educated go to the urban centres for better paid jobs, there aren't many locals available to do those jobs left (at least from my conversation with owners of these establishments).

The reason the foreign workers have come is that there isn't the opportunities at home, or the pay here is better simple economic reality.