O/T:- Men in women's teams

[Mapperleypie]

Correct. What Mapperleypie is saying is that the integrity of women's sport doesn't matter to him.

Haha.

I said it’s not a pressing issue. Of all the ills in the world I would say someone who identifies as a woman competing in women’s sport is a fringe issue at best.

It’s a topic that seems to seem to enrage a certain type of individual so certain websites/‘news’ channels have weaponised it to drive up engagement in the hope of increased advertising revenue.

[applepie2]

Haha.

I said it’s not a pressing issue. Of all the ills in the world I would say someone who identifies as a woman competing in women’s sport is a fringe issue at best.

It’s a topic that seems to seem to enrage a certain type of individual so certain websites/‘news’ channels have weaponised it to drive up engagement in the hope of increased advertising revenue.

Thanks for the clarification. Again, I think slack_pie has expressed my opinion better than I can myself, on the main issues.

I don't think that women's rights being ignored by much of the media is anything other than misogyny. Men taking things from women is as old as history, but now we're being told that we must accept it out of kindness to men. When your own family is impacted by an injustice or by a new secular movement with cult-like aspects it seems rather more pressing than if you are personally unaffected.

[andy6025]

I’m not expert on this topic. I don’t know much of anything about all the processes discussed for transitioning, or things about bone structure and various hormonal chemical that make your nads drop, or anything else. Like Mapperly, it’s not an issue I stay awake at night struggling over. But I do recognize it presents at least a little bit of an interesting problem.

Rather than classify sports as men’s or women’s, could they not just classify them as XX’s and XY’s? You can identify as whatever *** you like and I’ll be happy to salute whatever flag you run up the pole, but XX’s compete with each other and XYs compete with each other.

Don’t even have to mention the words men or women. You can even call yourself both or neither for all the bother it would cause me.

Would that solve the difficulty or am I still missing something?

[slack_pie]

I’m not expert on this topic. I don’t know much of anything about all the processes discussed for transitioning, or things about bone structure and various hormonal chemical that make your nads drop, or anything else. Like Mapperly, it’s not an issue I stay awake at night struggling over. But I do recognize it presents at least a little bit of an interesting problem.

Rather than classify sports as men’s or women’s, could they not just classify them as XX’s and XY’s? You can identify as whatever *** you like and I’ll be happy to salute whatever flag you run up the pole, but XX’s compete with each other and XYs compete with each other.

Don’t even have to mention the words men or women. You can even call yourself both or neither for all the bother it would cause me.

Would that solve the difficulty or am I still missing something?

Isn't that just a semantic change? I don't see what's wrong with using men or women, given that in the vast majority of cases, people are clearly one or the other.

[applepie2]

I’m not expert on this topic. I don’t know much of anything about all the processes discussed for transitioning, or things about bone structure and various hormonal chemical that make your nads drop, or anything else. Like Mapperly, it’s not an issue I stay awake at night struggling over. But I do recognize it presents at least a little bit of an interesting problem.

Rather than classify sports as men’s or women’s, could they not just classify them as XX’s and XY’s? You can identify as whatever *** you like and I’ll be happy to salute whatever flag you run up the pole, but XX’s compete with each other and XYs compete with each other.

Don’t even have to mention the words men or women. You can even call yourself both or neither for all the bother it would cause me.

Would that solve the difficulty or am I still missing something?

It almost solves the difficulty, but there are a few tricky DSDs (differences of sėxual development) which the sporting authorities should take into consideration. Of these, I think some either have obvious answers, or have physical effects that make them unlikely to afect elite sportspeople. DSDs are rare, and relatively recently discovered/understood. When it comes to trans activists, they would object strongly to your suggestion, but I've lost patience with their worldview which seems entirely based on the feelings of a few.

[andy6025]

Isn't that just a semantic change? I don't see what's wrong with using men or women, given that in the vast majority of cases, people are clearly one or the other.

I suppose *some* people might see it as simply a change of semantics, but others can identify as whatever they wish while competing amongst people with the same chromosomes without being told they are something they don’t believe they are.

The whole debate about whether people are this sėx, that sėx, or something else entirely gets side-stepped. You can retain your belief that there is an objective reality consisting of unchangeable binary sėxes while others can subscribe to the belief that one can transition. Safety and fairness are retained. People call themselves whatever they like. You aren’t forced to participate in calling them as they wish. They aren’t forced to identify themselves however you wish they do.

Applepie, given that I have a very limited (or non-existent) understanding of the specific biologies of DSDs that you mentioned, that part of your post was vague to me. I did see that you mentioned that you believe many trans***uals would object to my proposed solution. Perhaps this is true and I’m probably an ill-educated dinosaur on the subject. Nevertheless I’d be curious to learn what the objections would be.

[slack_pie]

I suppose *some* people might see it as simply a change of semantics, but others can identify as whatever they wish while competing amongst people with the same chromosomes without being told they are something they don’t believe they are.

The whole debate about whether people are this sėx, that sėx, or something else entirely gets side-stepped. You can retain your belief that there is an objective reality consisting of unchangeable binary sėxes while others can subscribe to the belief that one can transition. Safety and fairness are retained. People call themselves whatever they like. You aren’t forced to participate in calling them as they wish. They aren’t forced to identify themselves however you wish they do.

Applepie, given that I have a very limited (or non-existent) understanding of the specific biologies of DSDs that you mentioned, that part of your post was vague to me. I did see that you mentioned that you believe many trans***uals would object to my proposed solution. Perhaps this is true and I’m probably an ill-educated dinosaur on the subject. Nevertheless I’d be curious to learn what the objections would be.

What if someone with XY chromosomes identifies as someone with XX chromosomes and wants to compete in the XX group? Then we're back to square one.

[andy6025]

What if someone with XY chromosomes identifies as someone with XX chromosomes and wants to compete in the XX group? Then we're back to square one.

I think it’s universally accepted that one cannot change their chromosomes, is it not? And since some believe that sėx is not defined by chromosomes, then it ought to theoretically be acceptable for anyone who defines themselves as whatever sėx compete with the XXs and likewise whatever *** you say you are you can compete with the XYs. The only condition is that you have the corresponding chromosomes. As such there’s no such thing as men’s sports or women’s sports any more. There are XX sports and XY sports.