Official Nelmsy Campus Countdown

[Dodbroon]

Islay in your vastly superior knowledge of such planning matters can you explain just how much of a commercial/industrial site can be ‘green’ i e gardens, grass verges and incorporated sports areas and still considered brownfield. There must be some sort of proportional formula because surely say a modest grassy border around a factory would be an integral part of the said premises but if the factory and other buildings only take up less than say 50% of the land the answer would likely be different.

[islaydarkblue]

Islay in your vastly superior knowledge of such planning matters can you explain just how much of a commercial/industrial site can be ‘green’ i e gardens, grass verges and incorporated sports areas and still considered brownfield. There must be some sort of proportional formula because surely say a modest grassy border around a factory would be an integral part of the said premises but if the factory and other buildings only take up less than say 50% of the land the answer would likely be different.

I enclose details of examples of Brownfield sites. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownfield_land
In my opinion the current Camperdown retail park where ice rink, cinema, Premier Inn hotel and various eating/take away establishments are situated was built on a Brownfield site as the current Camperdown retail park was built on the site of the former NCR Camperdown factory plus associated car parks.
The report by the Dundee Civic Trust states that the site of the new stadium development is not being built on a Brownfield site as it is being built on the former NCR Camperdown playing fields.
I do not know if you are aware that the NCR in Dundee was way ahead of its time with an excellent sports and social club and very well maintained playing fields beside the NCR Camperdown factory.

[islaydarkblue]

How can you write such a long post yet make no valid point?

'It will be worse with the new stadium at Campy Nou being built on the outskirts of Dundee'. Please explain why, in your opinion, it will be worse, dying to read your ramblings.

At present Dens Park is easily accessed by people travelling from all parts of Dundee and beyond by car.
There are several Xplore Dundee bus services with frequent buses which run close to Dens Park with at least one bud service immediately passing Dens Park.
The new stadium at Campy Nou is immediately adjacent to the A90 trunk road from Glasgow and Edinburgh to Aberdeen.
There is only one road into the stadium car parks and a separate road out onto a busy mini roundabout at the foot of Faraday Street (known locally as the Timex Brae) and the main road from Dundee to Coupar Angus known as the Coupar Angus Road.
I was present at a Dee4life board of directors meeting in late 2018 where the new stadium was discussed.
Bob Hynd told us that Police Scotland were insisting that everyone attending a game at the new stadium by car had to park it in the new stadium car parks.
Police Scotland did not want spectators parking their cars in the housing schemes across the A90 Kingsway from the new stadium development.
At that time the plans for the new stadium development showed 1,362 car parking spaces and 80 spaces for supporters buses.
Now the latest plans show from memory show 880 car parking spaces and 25 spaces for supporters buses.
After car spaces have been allocated for the various businesses and housing in the site plus Dundee FC staff, management and directors on match days it has been reported that there will only be about 330 car parking spaces left which will be allocated for away supporters.
I seem to remember the reduced number of car and bus spaces being stated at the second Pre Application Notice meeting in September 2022 with car parking spaces only being allocated for away supporters.
There is the added problem of only one underpass underneath the A90 Kingsway which is close to the top of Buttars Road and during the winter months it is often flooded.
There is a second underpass underneath the A90 which was installed close to the bus terminus at that time to let NCR employees working in the NCR Gourdie factory walk safely to and from their work.
This underpass is close to the Aldi supermarket on the site of the former NCR Gourdie factory which was also a brownfield site when Asda built their new large superstore.
I remember seeing a photograph taken by a Dundee FC supporter almost two years ago which showed the narrow underpass close to the top of Buttars Road and the main safe access route to the new stadium development being flooded. The photograph was published on internet and social media forums
This underpass was installed many years ago to allow people to walk to the cinema in the current Camperdown retail park not for hundreds if not thousands of Dundee FC supporters leaving at the end of a game and walking back to their cars which could be parked as far away as Charleston Drive because the streets of the Dryburgh and Camperdown housing schemes are only for local residents to park their cars when League and cup games are being played in the new stadium at Campy Nou.
This would be a similar exclusion zone to what is currently in force around Dens Park and Tannadice Park every time there is a league or cup game taking place.

[islaydarkblue]

I have read your lengthy take on the Camperdown Project and tbh don’t disagree with all you write. Like many Dees my heart is still with Dens but my head tends towards the new project. I also agree that eventual agreed planning permission does not automatically mean the place will be built however welcome it will be. I agree again like many that there are arguments on both sides pro and against Camperdown and that while there are a few on here that are 100% in favour and the majority are just wanting to know if it is to go ahead and mildly in favour but there are none so opposed as you Islay. Your opposition borders on an obsession and in some ways is bizarre in its intensity. Imo no true supporter of the club would be quite so negative and I reckon you let your hatred of JN cloud your judgement. Can you explain your campaign against Camperdown in any other way?

I have been totally against the new stadium being built on the site of the former NCR Camperdown playing fields from day one.
Unlike a lot Dundee FC supporters I believe in stating my views and not waiting until there is traffic chaos before and after the first league game at the new stadium with the same Dundee FC supporters then stating this is a disaster and we should have done something about it before it was too late.
I have previously posted my detailed reasons why I am totally against the new stadium being built on the site of the former NCR Camperdown playing fields.
You should remember that the Yanks stated when they acquired a majority shareholding in Dundee Football Club Limited that they would buy back Dens Park for the Dundee FC supporters who could repay over a period of time.
I bitterly regret voting in favour of FPS acquiring a majority shareholding in Dundee Football Club Limited in August 2013.

[eric_sinclair]

Dens is not fit for purpose,the 2 older stands are almost a health hazard so we have 2 choices,major refurb of dens or move to a new stadium.
Our owners are trying to move,it looks like they have invested cash to make it happen.
The fans are sceptical due to not much happening in the years since it was planned.I prefer dens but think if the club are to move forward and try and get some new or returning fans a new ground would probably be more beneficial.

[Returnofrros]

Article in courier today Fae some blogger.

Again all very very very generic stuff on why we shud move with little or no evidence to back it up.

Don't think insulting the civic trust will help matters either.

Again if it's all about crowds how come Nelmsy does pretty much nothing to increase crowds at Dens or very very slow to do so.

I think if this is built ( or st m type stadium built ) people are gonna be a bit shocked at no huge upturn in crowds.

I think midweek crowds in particular will suffer.

[eric_sinclair]

Article in courier today Fae some blogger.

Again all very very very generic stuff on why we shud move with little or no evidence to back it up.

Don't think insulting the civic trust will help matters either.

Again if it's all about crowds how come Nelmsy does pretty much nothing to increase crowds at Dens or very very slow to do so.

I think if this is built ( or st m type stadium built ) people are gonna be a bit shocked at no huge upturn in crowds.

I think midweek crowds in particular will suffer.

Could it be that dens is not worth refurbishing so they need to move?Ive nae idea how you would even start to sort out the south enclosure and the land behind it.The main stand would be far easier but I think they are looking at ways to generate more cash like st johnstone do.

[eric_sinclair]

Interesting to see that wrexham have more than doubled their support since the takeover in 2020 some doing.

[islaydarkblue]

I enclose an article after Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited purchased the title deeds of Dens Park from John Bennett. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67000863
In the article John Nelms states that John Bennett came to Dundee Football Club’s rescue in their hour of need in 2009.
This is wrong. Calum Melville was bankrolling Dundee Football Club in 2009 to the reputed tune of £150,000 per month and everything was wonderful or so we thought before it all came crashing down at the beginning of October 2010.
After Lloyds Bank ‘rescued’ HBOS in 2008 they started to write off the vast bulk of outstanding debts previously due to HBOS.
This included £7 million of debt due to HBOS by Dundee Football Club Limited as a result of debts outstanding after the end of Admin 1.
Lloyds Bank wrote off £6.5 million and sold the title deeds of Dens Park to John Bennett for £500,000.

[islaydarkblue]

Interesting to see that wrexham have more than doubled their support since the takeover in 2020 some doing.

Wrexham were playing in the Conference League with little likelihood of promotion when they were taken over in 2020.
A similar situation happened with Gretna and we all know how that ended.