English identity?

[ramAnag]

Beat me too it on that one. They may be born here, but their religion is more than that. It is an ideology and dictates their way of life.
We have had this conversation before, last survey I published from YOUGOV, showed 50% of UK mulsims say they are Islam first before nationality.

Islam and Jews have been allowed to have their own little courts in places, where an individuals rights will not get the same representation in a normal court. Very dangerous and does exactly the opposite of the intended integration propaganda being spouted.
Saria and Beth din are contrary to being English

Hang on…it was YOU, Tricky, who (in post #22) pointed to 81% of people identifying being born in England as making them English. I simply said that I recognised that criteria as making some sort of sense and went on to say that - by that criteria which YOU introduced - you have to accept that many Muslims are as English as you or I.
Not happy with that, you, and apparently AF, want to change the argument by saying, that’s not true because ‘they’ are Muslim first and English second which is nonsense in a debate about national identity.
Many people may be conflicted in this way. You’ve already identified Jews. I’d add to that Catholics who must have found themselves horribly conflicted over the ‘troubles’ in Northern Ireland and, in a much less important way, the majority of football fans, including most on this forum for whom the fortunes of DCFC are way more important than those of ‘Ingerland’.

But we digress. This debate, as raised by a potential future PM, is about English identity…what it is and whether it actually exists…and I can’t see how changing the proverbial ‘goalposts’ in the way you are seeking to do gets us any further forward.

[Andy_Faber]

Not happy with that, you, and apparently AF, want to change the argument by saying, that’s not true because ‘they’ are Muslim first and English second which is nonsense in a debate about national identity.
;Ingerland.

It’s disturbing how, when there are so many minority groups to stick up for, you spend so much time defending Muslims? If Tricky has a bee in his bonnet, let him have his say, ignore him and move on to stick up for the fat, the ginger or Scientologists when they are pilloried

By the way Your use of ‘ingerland’ (again) rather than England suggests some covert opinion that I can’t quite fathom

[ramAnag]

It’s disturbing how, when there are so many minority groups to stick up for, you spend so much time defending Muslims? If Tricky has a bee in his bonnet, let him have his say, ignore him and move on to stick up for the fat, the ginger or Scientologists when they are pilloried

By the way Your use of ‘ingerland’ (again) rather than England suggests some covert opinion that I can’t quite fathom

Lol…not as disturbing perhaps as, ‘when there are so many minority groups’, it’s always the Muslims that seem to disturb Tricky - and to a lesser extent yourself - the most.

When have I ever stopped, or attempted to stop, Tricky having his say? I disagree with him but it was you who wrote about him a few weeks ago, ‘it’s a good job no one on here takes any notice of you’.

‘Ingerland’ is nothing more than a tongue in cheek reference to how England football fans repetitively chant the name of our country. No mileage there, AF.

[Geoff Parkstone]

The more I see of this debate, the more I wonder if rA is in fact a Moslem given his continuous support for all things Islamic

[ramAnag]

The more I see of this debate, the more I wonder if rA is in fact a Moslem given his continuous support for all things Islamic

Bollux…did you get your Marmite this morning?

[Geoff Parkstone]

No, not even toast....but a croissant that was ok although a French boulangerie might question the use of a protected name.

[SithHappens]

I don't know what English identity is, we don't seem to promote it. The other home nations seem proud and celebrate their national patron saints days, we don't in England. I bet most people don't even know when it is

[Trickytreesreds]

Hang on…it was YOU, Tricky, who (in post #22) pointed to 81% of people identifying being born in England as making them English. I simply said that I recognised that criteria as making some sort of sense and went on to say that - by that criteria which YOU introduced - you have to accept that many Muslims are as English as you or I.
Not happy with that, you, and apparently AF, want to change the argument by saying, that’s not true because ‘they’ are Muslim first and English second which is nonsense in a debate about national identity.
Many people may be conflicted in this way. You’ve already identified Jews. I’d add to that Catholics who must have found themselves horribly conflicted over the ‘troubles’ in Northern Ireland and, in a much less important way, the majority of football fans, including most on this forum for whom the fortunes of DCFC are way more important than those of ‘Ingerland’.

But we digress. This debate, as raised by a potential future PM, is about English identity…what it is and whether it actually exists…and I can’t see how changing the proverbial ‘goalposts’ in the way you are seeking to do gets us any further forward.

Not true, read it all.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articl...ording-english

Catholics, as far as I am aware, don't ask for their courts to comply with their religion?
You have seen the polls before, that whilst 63% of Muslims identify as "British" not necessarily English, Islam comes way before that.
The conflict is easily observed as well. You may have ignored the fact, that several Islam MP's have been elected on the Free Palestine ticket
Hardly an English identity prioirty

[Trickytreesreds]

It’s disturbing how, when there are so many minority groups to stick up for, you spend so much time defending Muslims? If Tricky has a bee in his bonnet, let him have his say, ignore him and move on to stick up for the fat, the ginger or Scientologists when they are pilloried

By the way Your use of ‘ingerland’ (again) rather than England suggests some covert opinion that I can’t quite fathom

I have said before that Islam disturbs me in many ways, that do come into conflict with what being "English" or "British"is.


1. Its condemnation and some times outright hostility and violence to gay/trans/apostates/. Contrary to UK law
2. It's teachings of women being subjects to second place rulings in life and abused if necessary (Trumps a monster, but thats ok)
3. Its intolerance to other religions, that can and does result in violence
4. Suppression of freedom of speech and opinion. There are no blasphemy laws here, and you have the right to criticise, laugh and even mock religion if you so wish. Doing do with Islam, can cost you dear. (is that teacher out of hiding yet?)

So back to it, I said in my piece, that part of being English, is a sense of fair play. The right to freech speech. The right to equality and freedom of choice.

Conflict? I think there is.

[Trickytreesreds]

I don't know what English identity is, we don't seem to promote it. The other home nations seem proud and celebrate their national patron saints days, we don't in England. I bet most people don't even know when it is

Correct. The other home countries celebrate it. Even St Patricks day will get a good turn out and piss up in London, all dressed in green. Do that in the red and white and the howling starts, of far right extemists intimidating everyone