O/T:- Betting odds for US Election [The USA Politics Thread]

[keldsyke]

How does that lead to world war three?

Russia would have to choose to escalate it there. No doubt you will blame "Biden" if that happens, but I don't see why they would.

Putin said that any use of these long range missiles supplied by the US or UK would be seen as direct involvement, the UK has been mulling over since August apparently.

[Jampie]

Putin said that any use of these long range missiles supplied by the US or UK would be seen as direct involvement, the UK has been mulling over since August apparently.

Putin has been claiming NATO direct involvement since the first weeks of the war. He threatened to regard the provision of each and every new piece of equipment as an "escalation". He has been lying the entire time and nothing he says can be trusted.

The reality is Putin is the one who started the war and has escalated it himself. Us providing Ukraine with weapons to defend themselves is not escalation. Allowing Ukraine to use those weapons to strike targets in Russia, when Russia has been striking targets in Ukraine for a thousand days straight and counting, is not escalation.

[Lullapie]

Putin has been claiming NATO direct involvement since the first weeks of the war. He threatened to regard the provision of each and every new piece of equipment as an "escalation". He has been lying the entire time and nothing he says can be trusted.

The reality is Putin is the one who started the war and has escalated it himself. Us providing Ukraine with weapons to defend themselves is not escalation. Allowing Ukraine to use those weapons to strike targets in Russia, when Russia has been striking targets in Ukraine for a thousand days straight and counting, is not escalation.

As per usual, it is the left that is portraying Putin as being the 100% bad guy. Now I am definitely not pro, but I am also not anti-Putin. As I don't live in Russia or wholly understand Russian politics, listening to the western media and forming a view on world politics from what they 'report', in my experience, is not a good way to go though.

What I do know, is that many countries have their own form of democracy. Many of the Russian people believe that their form of democracy is the only way and that Western democracy is weak. In Russia, if something is seen as 'weak' then it is bad.

Putin has been very good for Russia - that is why many of the ethnic Russians love him to an extent of making him a virtual deity. The country was broken when he took over and the Russians yearned for a strong leader in the form of Peter the Great or Joseph Stalin. That is not how the Western media like to portray Putin though. He is often ridiculed and mocked.

Back to point. When looking at most of the reporting of what is happening and what has happened in the Ukraine, the media talk about Russian aggression. What they are failing to point out (I believe intentionally) is that from the 1700's, Ukraine has in the main, been part of Russia. Since then and especially under the rule of Stalin, Ukraine had been populated with many ethnic Russians.

When Russia annexed the Crimea in 2014, the population was nearly all Russian. It may have been a pre-cursor to taking more land, but the Ukraine cause wasn't helped by the snuggling up of the Ukraine to NATO. To the Russians, this was the equivalent of the Cubans taking on Russian Nuclear missiles in 1962 and threatening the US. To Russia, it was a direct threat.

Again, I'm not defending what Russia did in the Crimea, but if you believe in self-determination, then why shouldn't the Crimea be Russian? Why shouldn't the Scots rule Scotland?

Day by day, all I see is warmongering by the current US administration. The Democrat administrations since Obama first came to power have been a litany of starting new wars. Obama alone started 7 campaigns.

The latest moves by the Democrat Party is to cause as many problems as possible before leaving office. I don't blame Biden. I personally think he was quite happy that Trump won the election over Harris.

It's folly to pick out one part of the conflict and say one side is wrong because of it. If you learn anything from history, it is that wars are caused by a chain of events, not just one particular action and this 'chain' escalates into something much bigger than first anticipated.

[Jampie]

As per usual, it is the left that is portraying Putin as being the 100% bad guy. Now I am definitely not pro, but I am also not anti-Putin. As I don't live in Russia or wholly understand Russian politics, listening to the western media and forming a view on world politics from what they 'report', in my experience, is not a good way to go though.

And the right has so utterly lost its way that it no longer knows friend from foe.

You claim not to be pro putin, but spread his lies for him. Weird.

What I do know, is that many countries have their own form of democracy. Many of the Russian people believe that their form of democracy is the only way and that Western democracy is weak. In Russia, if something is seen as 'weak' then it is bad.

Putin has been very good for Russia - that is why many of the ethnic Russians love him to an extent of making him a virtual deity. The country was broken when he took over and the Russians yearned for a strong leader in the form of Peter the Great or Joseph Stalin. That is not how the Western media like to portray Putin though. He is often ridiculed and mocked.

Right so let me get this straight.

Biden... zero new wars, ended Afghanistan (remember when that was important five minutes ago) and got inflation down 2.6% - terrible for America, better vote in an absolute clown

Putin: Invaded a neighbour, gained about 20% of their land in exchange for hundreds of thousands of casualties, at a minimum tens of thousands of dead, thousands of lost tanks, thousands of lost armoured vehicles etc etc. 20+% inflation - he's been good for Russia.

Got it, makes perfect sense.

Back to point. When looking at most of the reporting of what is happening and what has happened in the Ukraine, the media talk about Russian aggression. What they are failing to point out (I believe intentionally) is that from the 1700's, Ukraine has in the main, been part of Russia. Since then and especially under the rule of Stalin, Ukraine had been populated with many ethnic Russians.

New Zealand was part of New South Wales until 1841 - so you'd be ok with Australia invading?

Russia has no legal claim to any part of Ukraine and had signed a treaty recognising their independence and promising to respect their territorial integrity. One of the difficulties with ending the war is that Putin broke his word by invading and so any promise he makes can't be trusted in the future.

When Russia annexed the Crimea in 2014, the population was nearly all Russian. It may have been a pre-cursor to taking more land, but the Ukraine cause wasn't helped by the snuggling up of the Ukraine to NATO. To the Russians, this was the equivalent of the Cubans taking on Russian Nuclear missiles in 1962 and threatening the US. To Russia, it was a direct threat.

Again, I'm not defending what Russia did in the Crimea, but if you believe in self-determination, then why shouldn't the Crimea be Russian? Why shouldn't the Scots rule Scotland?

If the scots hold a referendum and vote to leave the UK then that's one thing. But if Norway invaded to "protect Scottish independence" without even such a vote taking place would you defend that? Because that's what you're defending in Crimea.

Day by day, all I see is warmongering by the current US administration. The Democrat administrations since Obama first came to power have been a litany of starting new wars. Obama alone started 7 campaigns.

The latest moves by the Democrat Party is to cause as many problems as possible before leaving office. I don't blame Biden. I personally think he was quite happy that Trump won the election over Harris.

It's folly to pick out one part of the conflict and say one side is wrong because of it. If you learn anything from history, it is that wars are caused by a chain of events, not just one particular action and this 'chain' escalates into something much bigger than first anticipated.

Obama started 7 campaigns? Which 7 would that be?

Yes, Biden is causing problems for Putin, because Putin invaded his neighbours.

Biden happy that Harris lost? You are delusional.

[BigFatPie]

And the right has so utterly lost its way that it no longer knows friend from foe.

You claim not to be pro putin, but spread his lies for him. Weird.



Right so let me get this straight.

Biden... zero new wars, ended Afghanistan (remember when that was important five minutes ago) and got inflation down 2.6% - terrible for America, better vote in an absolute clown

Putin: Invaded a neighbour, gained about 20% of their land in exchange for hundreds of thousands of casualties, at a minimum tens of thousands of dead, thousands of lost tanks, thousands of lost armoured vehicles etc etc. 20+% inflation - he's been good for Russia.

Got it, makes perfect sense.



New Zealand was part of New South Wales until 1841 - so you'd be ok with Australia invading?

Russia has no legal claim to any part of Ukraine and had signed a treaty recognising their independence and promising to respect their territorial integrity. One of the difficulties with ending the war is that Putin broke his word by invading and so any promise he makes can't be trusted in the future.



If the scots hold a referendum and vote to leave the UK then that's one thing. But if Norway invaded to "protect Scottish independence" without even such a vote taking place would you defend that? Because that's what you're defending in Crimea.



Obama started 7 campaigns? Which 7 would that be?

Yes, Biden is causing problems for Putin, because Putin invaded his neighbours.

Biden happy that Harris lost? You are delusional.

The right have lost their minds generally, but the desperation to keep Putin happy in this situation is weird even by their standards.

Russia could stop the war today by ceasing to fire missiles at and getting their soldiers out of Ukraine, but somehow it?s the ?Dems? who are warmongering by giving Ukraine the capability to defend themselves?

The only thing I can think of is that their hero Trump loves Putin so by extension they should too. In no other conflict in the world would they argue the idiocy that?s been argued here.

[Lullapie]

Obama started 7 campaigns? Which 7 would that be?

Yes, Biden is causing problems for Putin, because Putin invaded his neighbours.

Biden happy that Harris lost? You are delusional.

Here, I'll help you. Obviously your google search doesn't stretch to facts:

Operation Ocean Shield - began 2009
US intervention in Libya - 2011
Operation Observant Compass - 2011
US intervention in Niger - 2013
US intervention in Iraq - 2014
US intervention in Syria - 2014
US intervention in Libya - 2015

These were actually taken from Wikipedia - so unless you doubt Wikipedia's authenticity, you ought to agree on these. There were others mentioned on another site, smaller skirmishes, where the US army were sent in to 'deal with insurgents', but the site doesn't have the unbiasedness that Wikipedia has.

[Jampie]

Here, I'll help you. Obviously your google search doesn't stretch to facts:

Operation Ocean Shield - began 2009
US intervention in Libya - 2011
Operation Observant Compass - 2011
US intervention in Niger - 2013
US intervention in Iraq - 2014
US intervention in Syria - 2014
US intervention in Libya - 2015

These were actually taken from Wikipedia - so unless you doubt Wikipedia's authenticity, you ought to agree on these. There were others mentioned on another site, smaller skirmishes, where the US army were sent in to 'deal with insurgents', but the site doesn't have the unbiasedness that Wikipedia has.

I didn't do a google search, I asked you a question. Thanks for the answer, rude and condescending as it was.

[Lullapie]

Biden... zero new wars, ended Afghanistan (remember when that was important five minutes ago) and got inflation down 2.6% - terrible for America, better vote in an absolute clown





New Zealand was part of New South Wales until 1841 - so you'd be ok with Australia invading?


Biden happy that Harris lost? You are delusional.

Well, across much of the media, they have a different opinion to you with regards to Biden and Harris. Even a smiling Jill Biden being photographed after voting in the election, dressed in a beautiful red suit, says quite a lot to those who have a brain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comme...a-harris-lost/

Biden actually sent the US Army into the Red Sea with Operation Prosperity Guardian in 2023. You can't knock the Democrats for their inventive campaign names!

With regards to the Afghanistan withdrawal, you must have been living in a cave. That was a MASSIVE debacle. Thousands of Afghanis who had supported the US, left to face the wrath of the Taliban. Billions of dollars of US war inventory, left behind for the Taliban and thir**** US soldiers and over 100 Afghanis killed by a suicide bomber at Kabul International Airport.

Even the lefty press called it chaotic.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ithdrawal-book

With regards to Australia invading New Zealand, I'd be more concerned about New Zealand invading Australia if I was you. With the amount of Kiwis leaving NZ for Aussie, you'll be in the minority soon.

As former NZ Prime Minister, Rob Muldoon once said, "New Zealanders emigrating to Australia raises the IQ in both countries."

[Jampie]

Well, across much of the media, they have a different opinion to you with regards to Biden and Harris. Even a smiling Jill Biden being photographed after voting in the election, dressed in a beautiful red suit, says quite a lot to those who have a brain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comme...a-harris-lost/

Biden actually sent the US Army into the Red Sea with Operation Prosperity Guardian in 2023. You can't knock the Democrats for their inventive campaign names!

With regards to the Afghanistan withdrawal, you must have been living in a cave. That was a MASSIVE debacle. Thousands of Afghanis who had supported the US, left to face the wrath of the Taliban. Billions of dollars of US war inventory, left behind for the Taliban and thir**** US soldiers and over 100 Afghanis killed by a suicide bomber at Kabul International Airport.

Even the lefty press called it chaotic.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ithdrawal-book

With regards to Australia invading New Zealand, I'd be more concerned about New Zealand invading Australia if I was you. With the amount of Kiwis leaving NZ for Aussie, you'll be in the minority soon.

As former NZ Prime Minister, Rob Muldoon once said, "New Zealanders emigrating to Australia raises the IQ in both countries."

Biden sent the US Navy into the Red Sea, not the army. I'm not sure the army swimming around would've done much to stop Houthi attacks on shiping.

Point out where I said the Afghan withdrawal was a flawless operation? I said it happened and Biden did it. You were calling him a warmonger at the time.

Regarding Kiwis invading Australia, please google our populations and do some third grade maths to figure out the flaw in your argument. And Mr Muldoon's, apparently.

[Lullapie]

Biden sent the US Navy into the Red Sea, not the army. I'm not sure the army swimming around would've done much to stop Houthi attacks on shiping.

Point out where I said the Afghan withdrawal was a flawless operation? I said it happened and Biden did it. You were calling him a warmonger at the time.

Regarding Kiwis invading Australia, please google our populations and do some third grade maths to figure out the flaw in your argument. And Mr Muldoon's, apparently.

Pure semantics. You are in complete denial. Just carry on in your own little world.