OT - Coincidence or design?

[MadAmster]

Based on my "revolution" hobby horse. Not in any particular chronological order.

We had a financial crisis, caused by US banks back in 2008. For a while everybody suffered and then the markets improved and something like the richest 5% had a heyday and the gap between them and the rest of us was larger than it was before.

Farming crisis allied somewhat to the climate crisis (Whether you think there was one or not). Farmers encouraged to become more efficient and farm more intensely. They borrowed money to do so. Then nitrogen became an issue. Farmers are now being encouraged to trim their herds of livestock. That will result in them losing income and being unable to repay their loans. In come the 5% who buy up the land and they hope to get it on the cheap. Of course, there being less animals to slaughter may well see the price per animal increase, however, it's more than feasible that the supermarkets will be extremely reticent to pay more per pound of flesh.

At the same time, there's a cost of living crisis yet supermarkets like Tesco see profits rise from ?882M to ?2.3Bn. Looking at other industries profits that are also rising, I can only surmise that it's profits that are driving up inflation. Again, those with money are benefitting to the detriment of the rest.

The Ukraine conflict has seen gas prices rise which also drives up the cost of electricity, especially now there's no Russian gas available to us. Gas and electricity firms are seeing huge profits and the rich get richer. The conflict has also seen bumper sales and ditto profits for arms manufacturers. I doubt many Rams fans will benefit financially from the huge dividends that are, undoubtedly, on their way.

Covid saw a fair few people making money. Again it was the already rich and a few with "friends in high places" who benefitted.

Solar panels. Here in NL we were encouraged to have them fitted and, as well as subsidies, come the end of year account settlement, you could discount the Kwh's you'd delivered to the grid from those you'd used from the grid, meaning we got money back each year. That is now being done away with. We currently pay 28 cents per Kwh but only get 4 cents for what we deliver to the grid and that will shortly disappear altogether. Some companies are actually making a monthly charge for you uploading energy and then discounting the pittance you get against that charge. The energy companies are already making huge profits and those will only rise. Then there's the situation whereby the energy companies haven't upgraded the grid to take account of all the extra power produced which can, at times, lead to your "extra" energy just dissipating. They also say the grid is "full". There is not the infrastructure in place to make more electricity available. Energy slurping social media data centres are now being built again having been stopped a couple of years ago. That won't help the situation. New build homes take around a year to build. If you apply for an electricity supply on day one, you can expect to get connected to the grid about 17 months later. Energy companies are making huge profits

Look at the past 30 years and just about every crisis has seen the wealth gap grow. To the point now where Musk has >400Bn and is 188BN ahead of #2. This amount of wealth gives them more than a little power. Trump getting back into office has seen Bezos and Zuckerberg changing company policy and direction in order to have a chance at getting some government contracts which will make them even richer and more powerful. Musk is acting like he thinks he rules the world and wants to make it actual. Trump, who's not exactly poor, will, IMO, do all he can to help himself and his fellow rich get even more so.

It seems that whatever happens, the rich get richer. The wealth gap is an ever widening chasm. I'm glad I'm 70 and will probably remain comfortable for the rest of my life. Much less sure about my sons and any grandchildren that might come along.

Almost everything that has happened, politically/financially ends up seeing the rich get richer and the rest falling ever further behind.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. Looking at who benefits from just about every crisis and situation in the world over the past 30 and maybe more years, one could be excused for thinking that it's all mere coincidence that the 5% seem to be the only ones benefitting financially. Conversely, you might think that it's all a plan that's coming nicely together and the majority of us are well and truly "ducked".

Personally, I'm leaning more and more to the plan coming nicely together as there's so many instances that it can't, surely, be by accident.

[Andy_Faber]

Based on my "revolution" hobby horse. Not in any particular chronological order.

We had a financial crisis, caused by US banks back in 2008. For a while everybody suffered and then the markets improved and something like the richest 5% had a heyday and the gap between them and the rest of us was larger than it was before.

Farming crisis allied somewhat to the climate crisis (Whether you think there was one or not). Farmers encouraged to become more efficient and farm more intensely. They borrowed money to do so. Then nitrogen became an issue. Farmers are now being encouraged to trim their herds of livestock. That will result in them losing income and being unable to repay their loans. In come the 5% who buy up the land and they hope to get it on the cheap. Of course, there being less animals to slaughter may well see the price per animal increase, however, it's more than feasible that the supermarkets will be extremely reticent to pay more per pound of flesh.

At the same time, there's a cost of living crisis yet supermarkets like Tesco see profits rise from ?882M to ?2.3Bn. Looking at other industries profits that are also rising, I can only surmise that it's profits that are driving up inflation. Again, those with money are benefitting to the detriment of the rest.

The Ukraine conflict has seen gas prices rise which also drives up the cost of electricity, especially now there's no Russian gas available to us. Gas and electricity firms are seeing huge profits and the rich get richer. The conflict has also seen bumper sales and ditto profits for arms manufacturers. I doubt many Rams fans will benefit financially from the huge dividends that are, undoubtedly, on their way.

Covid saw a fair few people making money. Again it was the already rich and a few with "friends in high places" who benefitted.

Solar panels. Here in NL we were encouraged to have them fitted and, as well as subsidies, come the end of year account settlement, you could discount the Kwh's you'd delivered to the grid from those you'd used from the grid, meaning we got money back each year. That is now being done away with. We currently pay 28 cents per Kwh but only get 4 cents for what we deliver to the grid and that will shortly disappear altogether. Some companies are actually making a monthly charge for you uploading energy and then discounting the pittance you get against that charge. The energy companies are already making huge profits and those will only rise. Then there's the situation whereby the energy companies haven't upgraded the grid to take account of all the extra power produced which can, at times, lead to your "extra" energy just dissipating. They also say the grid is "full". There is not the infrastructure in place to make more electricity available. Energy slurping social media data centres are now being built again having been stopped a couple of years ago. That won't help the situation. New build homes take around a year to build. If you apply for an electricity supply on day one, you can expect to get connected to the grid about 17 months later. Energy companies are making huge profits

Look at the past 30 years and just about every crisis has seen the wealth gap grow. To the point now where Musk has >400Bn and is 188BN ahead of #2. This amount of wealth gives them more than a little power. Trump getting back into office has seen Bezos and Zuckerberg changing company policy and direction in order to have a chance at getting some government contracts which will make them even richer and more powerful. Musk is acting like he thinks he rules the world and wants to make it actual. Trump, who's not exactly poor, will, IMO, do all he can to help himself and his fellow rich get even more so.

It seems that whatever happens, the rich get richer. The wealth gap is an ever widening chasm. I'm glad I'm 70 and will probably remain comfortable for the rest of my life. Much less sure about my sons and any grandchildren that might come along.

Almost everything that has happened, politically/financially ends up seeing the rich get richer and the rest falling ever further behind.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. Looking at who benefits from just about every crisis and situation in the world over the past 30 and maybe more years, one could be excused for thinking that it's all mere coincidence that the 5% seem to be the only ones benefitting financially. Conversely, you might think that it's all a plan that's coming nicely together and the majority of us are well and truly "ducked".

Personally, I'm leaning more and more to the plan coming nicely together as there's so many instances that it can't, surely, be by accident.

It?s an interesting summary but I?m not sure we?re in any different situation now than in the past, albeit the numbers have got bigger. In fact the ?lower classes? are less likely to revolt than previously, Baldrick never had central heating, a Netflix subscription and an iPhone and my last encounter with one of the 5% was tempered by not having to **** in a bucket and chuck it in the street. Not saying all the 5% deserve their gains, I?ll-gotten or not, but I don?t see the traction to strip them of it

[MadAmster]

It?s an interesting summary but I?m not sure we?re in any different situation now than in the past, albeit the numbers have got bigger. In fact the ?lower classes? are less likely to revolt than previously, Baldrick never had central heating, a Netflix subscription and an iPhone and my last encounter with one of the 5% was tempered by not having to **** in a bucket and chuck it in the street. Not saying all the 5% deserve their gains, I?ll-gotten or not, but I don?t see the traction to strip them of it

I just can't rhyme the terms "cost of living crisis" with "record profits". Rightly or wrongly, the latter is the major cause of the former, IMO.

[Andy_Faber]

I just can't rhyme the terms "cost of living crisis" with "record profits". Rightly or wrongly, the latter is the major cause of the former, IMO.

At any given point in time there are always inequalities that thoughtful folk can't square off. Example, stoke's owner awarding herself a ?150m bonus from betting seems a bit distasteful. My point is more 'what's anyone likely to do about it', and IMO the majority aren't feeling enough of a pinch to do anything stronger than cast their vote

[ramAnag]

I just can't rhyme the terms "cost of living crisis" with "record profits". Rightly or wrongly, the latter is the major cause of the former, IMO.

Find myself sympathising with you while agreeing with AF.
Most people are 1) too busy 2) too comfortably selfish and 3) too fearful of the possible consequences to support your call for revolution.
Look at the reaction since Labour came to power. Very little been said about the overdue raising of the minimum wage which actually helps the poorest, but all hell let loose about means testing the winter fuel allowance and and reevaluating the inheritance rules for farmers.

[Trickytreesreds]

Find myself sympathising with you while agreeing with AF.
Most people are 1) too busy 2) too comfortably selfish and 3) too fearful of the possible consequences to support your call for revolution.
Look at the reaction since Labour came to power. Very little been said about the overdue raising of the minimum wage which actually helps the poorest, but all hell let loose about means testing the winter fuel allowance and and reevaluating the inheritance rules for farmers.

But it isn't means tested is it?
Its pensioners credits or nowt
Minimum wage gets you 20-22k a year.
Yet pensioners credit means ?1 above 11.336k a year, means you get nowt. Do you not see the injustice in this. Factor in MP's getting fuel allowance, asylum seekers getting pocket money etc,
WFA was an unjust attack

[Geoff Parkstone]

Does that surprise you? Taking something away always annoys people, giving them something (merited or otherwise) rarely raises an eyebrow.

[Andy_Faber]

raising of the minimum wage which actually helps the poorest

Not sure you have your focus right on 'the poorest' there rA, some folk in the lower quartile of wealth maybe, but 'the poorest'?

I'm not actually sure it will help those in work if it, combined with the NIC increase, results in an increase in business closures, increase in redundancies, reduction in recruitment etc. Great to have a few more quid in the paypacket, not so good if its accompanied by a P45. The jury's out on that one

[MadAmster]

As I've said in previous threads. HMG says they have a plan. The aim is to stabilise and then improve the economy. We'll have to wait until nearer the end of this 5 year period before we can make a call on whether they have succeeded, are succeeding and getting us there or failing. People won't like each and every thing they do but, at this point, what has happened is not the end game. We have to wait and see.

You have people complaining that the Chancellor is currently in China when, in their opinion, she should be sorting stuff out at home. The aim of this China trip is to get UK firms a bigger slice of China cake and also get some inward investment. That would aid the economy, aid firms and help create jobs. It's no great stretch of the imagination to think that what she's doing will go some of the way to sorting stuff out at home.

[SithHappens]

It will take time. Not all decisions will be
popular, and its only natural that the unpopular ones will get more focus in the media.

This time is very different to when Tony Blairs labour took over.

Last time the economy was on its way to recovery after a fairly torrid time earlier in the 90s.

This time they are taking over an economy that is suffering from the effects of brexit, covid, the war, liz truss..its a very different ball game.