Ok, not football at all, but it matters, eventually.

[spaldy]

Doesn't work that way. If that was the case we'd have had to declare war on Argentina over the Falklands incident. We aren't going to war over someone attacking a NATO countries holding or territory.

The NATO thing is getting old. We've spent trillions of dollars propping it up while many of the member countries don't even pay their 2% annual commitment to defense. We also ended up paying the lion's share of the Ukraine war that really has little or nothing to do with the US.

Tell you what. Here's a great trade for me as a US taxpayer. I'll let Russia and China have Greenland and The Panama canal in return for pulling all of our bases and defense payments in Europe and Asia. I figure we'll be a couple of trillion dollars a year ahead on that deal.

Yeah, I know that Trumps a felon and dictator. Totally unreasonable for him to expect some sort of return on the trillions we spend around the world. I know that Denmark is a military juggernaut and more than able to defend Greenland when the russians and chinese decide they want it to control the Artic shipping lanes. I'm sure the citizens of Greenland will be more than happy to fight and die defending their country.

Don't worry, the UN can send them a sternly worded message telling them they are wrong to take Greenland and the Panama canal.

[WTF11]

Doesn't work that way. If that was the case we'd have had to declare war on Argentina over the Falklands incident. We aren't going to war over someone attacking a NATO countries holding or territory.

The NATO thing is getting old. We've spent trillions of dollars propping it up while many of the member countries don't even pay their 2% annual commitment to defense. We also ended up paying the lion's share of the Ukraine war that really has little or nothing to do with the US.

Tell you what. Here's a great trade for me as a US taxpayer. I'll let Russia and China have Greenland and The Panama canal in return for pulling all of our bases and defense payments in Europe and Asia. I figure we'll be a couple of trillion dollars a year ahead on that deal.

Yeah, I know that Trumps a felon and dictator. Totally unreasonable for him to expect some sort of return on the trillions we spend around the world. I know that Denmark is a military juggernaut and more than able to defend Greenland when the russians and chinese decide they want it to control the Artic shipping lanes. I'm sure the citizens of Greenland will be more than happy to fight and die defending their country.

Don't worry, the UN can send them a sternly worded message telling them they are wrong to take Greenland and the Panama canal.

It (the NATO treaty) works exactly as I describe. The UK made no demands of NATO when the Falklands were invaded (save for the use of American bases in the Atlantic for refuelling and re-provisioning) and even then we (the UK) didn't need that for the Vulcan bombing attack that disabled Port Stanley airfield. The UK armed forces were more than capable of turfing the Argentineans out without any other assistance. Given Denmark's military capability that's unlikely should Greenland be threatened by Russia or China! That's why the collective security of NATO is so attractive for the smaller European states. From what you say about NATO I take it you would say f00k Europe and build a huge f00king wall round the US (Probably what Trump wants to do)?

[WTF11]

Doesn't work that way. If that was the case we'd have had to declare war on Argentina over the Falklands incident. We aren't going to war over someone attacking a NATO countries holding or territory.

The NATO thing is getting old. We've spent trillions of dollars propping it up while many of the member countries don't even pay their 2% annual commitment to defense. We also ended up paying the lion's share of the Ukraine war that really has little or nothing to do with the US.

Tell you what. Here's a great trade for me as a US taxpayer. I'll let Russia and China have Greenland and The Panama canal in return for pulling all of our bases and defense payments in Europe and Asia. I figure we'll be a couple of trillion dollars a year ahead on that deal.

Yeah, I know that Trumps a felon and dictator. Totally unreasonable for him to expect some sort of return on the trillions we spend around the world. I know that Denmark is a military juggernaut and more than able to defend Greenland when the russians and chinese decide they want it to control the Artic shipping lanes. I'm sure the citizens of Greenland will be more than happy to fight and die defending their country.

Don't worry, the UN can send them a sternly worded message telling them they are wrong to take Greenland and the Panama canal.

And the conflict in Ukraine having "little or nothing to do with the US"? SAID let's assume Trump pulls the plug in further support and in doing so forces Ukraine to "negotiate" with Putin in all likelihood resulting in current INVADED territory becoming part of Russia and Ukraine being prevented from ever becoming a NATO member. That's a start.

Then Russia claims that ethnic Russians in other parts of Ukraine are being "victimised" and insists in those areas becoming part of Russia. Then there are "suggestions" that the remaining Ukraine populace wiuld prefer joining their ex-countrymen as Russian citizens. Russia now has a border with Poland, a current NATO member. Trump refuses to support the European NATO members and Putin (or his successor) takes advantage and pressures the remaining European states to accept puppet administrations friendly to Moscow. If you have any grasp of recent 20th century history all this should be familiar to you (but I doubt it, do some research). It all happened about 70 years ago, didn't end well for a lot of people and this time there us that delightful addition of plutonium powered weaponry.

You have some guaranteed defence against nuclear weapons? Takes just one MIRV to spoil an awful lot of people's plans for their day.

Sadly (at least for those who think the USA can exist as some sort of splendoured island) it's all connected. We on this side of the pond know that, but having had the USA rape and pillage our Empire and the Commonwealth as the price for Lend Lease support prior to Pearl Harbour, we no longer have the military clout to show folks like Putin that he should wind his neck in a bit. Shame that we are about to "enjoy" an administration headed by a man who doesn't know the meaning of effective diplomacy.

[Sniffer999]

Spaldy I agree with all you say. You obviously take a careful look at all the stuff going on and so do I.
People having a different opinion is fine. Obviously. People I respect have different opinions to me on this site. What I would say is I've followed these topics closely, pretty much on a daily basis and often numerous instances per day over the last 3 years or so.
I believe some of the people on here are impacted by MSN and possibly not delved into deeper information. That's also fine.
WTF must be taking the Mickey. He has now threatened me twice on here. Let me be clear that I find this ridiculous and I would not want to have an issue with anyone, I hope my posting history suggests that (lasher previously).
However I will stand my ground and call out this type of threat.
So, in view of everyone on this site WTF stand up your threats. Arrange something with me on here that will give you the opportunity so I don't have to 'watch my back'. Give me a few dates and times and places convenient to you so I might match one after work commitments etc and then you can carry out either of your 2 threats. I don't like bullies.

[WTF11]

Spaldy I agree with all you say. You obviously take a careful look at all the stuff going on and so do I.
People having a different opinion is fine. Obviously. People I respect have different opinions to me on this site. What I would say is I've followed these topics closely, pretty much on a daily basis and often numerous instances per day over the last 3 years or so.
I believe some of the people on here are impacted by MSN and possibly not delved into deeper information. That's also fine.
WTF must be taking the Mickey. He has now threatened me twice on here. Let me be clear that I find this ridiculous and I would not want to have an issue with anyone, I hope my posting history suggests that (lasher previously).
However I will stand my ground and call out this type of threat.
So, in view of everyone on this site WTF stand up your threats. Arrange something with me on here that will give you the opportunity so I don't have to 'watch my back'. Give me a few dates and times and places convenient to you so I might match one after work commitments etc and then you can carry out either of your 2 threats. I don't like bullies.

I've suggested you be careful, just do that.

As for not liking bullies, you subscribe to the actions of Trump and Musk, looked in the mirror lately?

[Orgoner]

Behave, eejits!

[Ozwhites]

Orgs, out of interest, is there a limit to the number of posts on a single thread? Just concerned there may not be ample space to cover another 4 years. 😉

[Orgoner]

It’s all fun and games before the grandpas take it out to the Tesco Express carpark.

As you were, men.

[Orgoner]

And Totty, obviously!

[Orgoner]

Orgs, out of interest, is there a limit to the number of posts on a single thread? Just concerned there may not be ample space to cover another 4 years. ��

No idea!

It’s been a weird thread, but I’m guessing it can run for now…